Fall in Diesel Prices....

[BroadScot]

With the current wholesale fall in diesel prices, now back to less than petrol ten years ago, I wonder if that will effect the diesel prices split at the Boatyards?          Petrol 114.9.....Diesel 112.9.     

 

 

Iain

[senator]

petrol is already much more expensive than diesel in the majority of places that supply it so I'm guessing no, especially if they call it MARINE Diesel.

[Hylander]

they call it MARINE Diesel.-  umm!!   I think a lot of folk would call it something else.  

[Hockham Admiral]

It won't affect the split at all, that stays at 60:40 whatever the price.

Yards will have to sell their current fuel before they can buy fresh at the new lower prices (and hopefully pass on that).

[dnks34]

I blame the EU, if we came out of it could we have our cheap red diesel back please

[LondonRascal]

There is already cheap red diesel and anyone can buy it, just so long as you don't put in your car or a boat other than those such as fishing trawler (commercial) boats for that is where you would break the law since you had just fiddled HMRC out of some tax.  The silly thing is the punishment for so doing is between £250.00 and £500.00  together with the vehicle such fuel was put in being taken to a pound and held until payment is made, whereupon you would need to also pay the storage fee and release fee. 

 

All in all these seems pretty weak punishment, and  it would not take many fill ups to make the possible fine and associated costs almost seem worthwhile.  I've not been able to find anything online with reports as to boat owners being fined one can't really 'impound' the boat and since I for one have never heard on any forum anyone ever had their tank dipped or asked where their fuel comes from one wonders if the risks to pleasure boaters are next to zero.

 

The fuel that gets put in boats on the Broads is red diesel it is just taxed differently which makes the difference in price since 40% of it is tax free and the sellers have to keep careful records and so I suspect it is those who face the HMRC's wroth more than anyone if returns and records are not kept.

 

Someone might pass by a forecourt on the road selling white Diesel  100% taxed and it be £1.12 a litre, and then find the boatyard they have hired from is selling red Diesel only 60%  of which is taxed yet charging £1.20 a litre and feel 'ripped off'.   That is the right of a boatyard to charge what they wish since they are in business but of course they have to stay within the bounds of what the local competition charge  so they are not seen to be taking the micky too much, this which is why the major hire yards all sell the fuel at the same prices.

 

There are of course the independent, small yards who can sell their fuel almost as if a loss leader, since they get mainly private boats coming for fuel (though any hire boat could stop by too) and while the boater is there having their tanks filled they may buy something else - a fender, new ropes perhaps or maybe  book their boat in for more works to be done which will be profitable for the yard in question making it all worth extremely tight margins on the fuel sales. This is  why the likes of Boulter's in Horning may charge just 99p per litre for fuel which soon adds up if you filled up with 70 litres of fuel at Boulters you'd be charged £69.30 yet the same fuel from say Herbert Woods would cost you £84.00 - almost £15.00 more expensive!

[dnks34]

Robin where can this cheap red diesel be bought?

The only place i know of is via heating oil companies but then you need buy a large quantity of it which then presents the problem of having somewhere safe to store what you cant fit in the boat tank and the obvious pain of transfering it when needed!

[senator]

I have 250 gallon of storage available to anyone who wishes, I will even move it around so the tax man can't find it, unfortunately a small amount of the stored fuel may be used up in the game of cat and mouse.

[Hockham Admiral]

Robin where can this cheap red diesel be bought?

The only place i know of is via heating oil companies but then you need buy a large quantity of it which then presents the problem of having somewhere safe to store what you cant fit in the boat tank and the obvious pain of transfering it when needed!

From any friendly local farmer! I have quite a few 20L plastic "jerry cans" for sale at the moment!

[Poppy]

I paid £1.07 for red yesterday at Brooms.

[senator]

How come Diesel is 20p a litre more on the Broads than on the South coast?

 

I know competition effects the price but 20p a litre is a bit much Hamble was 84p litre last week apparently

[marshman]

Perhaps its something to do with the overall amount used - one boat on the S Coast could use a weeks supply for the Broads in just one fill up!!

 

i guess even Boulters only fill up their tanks on average once a month/6 weeks.

 

So go on - how much fuel does the average private boat owner use in a year - 200/300 litres at the most? A saving of say 7p a litre is hardly a significant part of your overall boating costs or is it?? Thats not even one meal out for goodness sake!!!

[senator]

Perhaps its something to do with the overall amount used - one boat on the S Coast could use a weeks supply for the Broads in just one fill up!!

 

i guess even Boulters only fill up their tanks on average once a month/6 weeks.

 

So go on - how much fuel does the average private boat owner use in a year - 200/300 litres at the most? A saving of say 7p a litre is hardly a significant part of your overall boating costs or is it?? Thats not even one meal out for goodness sake!!!

Maybe a quantity discount would be a good idea then, our tanks hold 1200 litres and despite owning the boat for less than 6 weeks about 1400 litres have already been used. Couldn't do that ongoing but the chances are most seagoing boats will be taking on 500 litres plus at any one time. if this is repeated 4 times a year it is going to be a really nice meal. 

[kfurbank]

Last week Boulters were 99p, at the same time Goodchild were £1.13.5p. I use on average 400 litres per year so a potential saving of £58 a year just by waiting till I pass a place with diesel at a reasonable price. With a tank that holds 175 litres there is normally no pressure to fill up.

[LondonRascal]

@dnks34:

 

You can buy Red Diesel online, free next day delivery in 40 gallon drums if you so wished, or there is a place  Nicholson's Engineering in Stalham who I believe sell it too. 

 

Be aware though if you did get it from such sources and did not pay the full duty, then by using it in your boat for propulsion would then mean you being open to fines by HMRC as I posted previously.

[webntweb]

If, as Robins says, the fuel is zero tax rated for commercial use as his example of a fishing trawler, then shouldn't hire boats be able to use zero tax rated fuel as they are also commercial craft.

 

Roy

[kfurbank]

Roy, they are pleasurecraft owned and run by a commercial operation, not commercial craft. The person who actually buys the fuel is also using the craft for pleasure.

[BroadScot]

IF you began to sell the fish you caught on a pleasurecraft, would that make you a commercial craft?

 

 

Iain

[webntweb]

Roy, they are pleasurecraft owned and run by a commercial operation, not commercial craft. The person who actually buys the fuel is also using the craft for pleasure.

But it seems they are commercial craft when it comes to waste disposal.

 

IF you began to sell the fish you caught on a pleasurecraft, would that make you a commercial craft?

 

 

Iain

Don't know Iain, with my rate of catching fish it definitely wouldn't be commercially viable.

 

Roy

[DaveRolaves]

To sell fish now the boat has to be a commercially registered fishing boat with a licence to fish. At the present time red diesel for registered boats costs in the region of 75p per lit. 

[BroadScot]

Yes 72p at Troon Harbour for the fishing fleet. Or was last week.

 

 

Iain

[dnks34]

Thanks Robin!!

Im not advocating any loopholes but should I purchase a 40 gallon drum and keep it in my garage for agricultural use on my property "ahem" would I be checked up on i wonder, surely at point of sale my details will be taken then passed on to HMRC or be held on file with the supplier should HMRC ever decide to audit? Its probably a bit risky

[jasontmarks01]

I can buy gas oil (red diesel) at a filling station up the road from me for around 65/70p per litre.

Can purchase 40l at a time no questions asked.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[dnks34]

I can buy gas oil (red diesel) at a filling station up the road from me for around 65/70p per litre.

Can purchase 40l at a time no questions asked.

Please PM me the address

[DaveRolaves]

If commercial fishermen or farmers buy the fuel direct from the supplier in bulk at 2000 lit plus then the cost at the present time is in the region of 48p per lit. As a matter of interest  red diesel bought  commercially in bulk in 1997  was 6p per lit.