Tolls

[dnks34]

Bow thrusters no.....stern thrusters yes!!!!!! 

No im kidding

[TheQ]

16 minutes ago, dnks34 said:

 

If twins had been tolled at a higher rate from dot would a difference of   a decent pair of deck shoes stopped a buyer purchasing a twin if thats what they wanted? I doubt it.

I

 

 

 

That depends on the price of deck shoes, I've never paid over 30 pounds and couldn't afford too.

[senator]

What about outdrives? they can point in lots of directions.

Are the BA really missing a trick here? Petrol powered boats pay extra for Carbon Monoxide, Diesel boats pay extra for Nitrogen Dioxide, Bow thrusters double, stern thrusters treble, outdrives quadripple. A diesel twin outdrive boat with twin engines, bow thruster, stern thruster and a petrol auxilary outboard would be around £10,000, all totally justified in someones mind. and if they are Hydraulic Thrusters they can be used for longer, you know the ones the hire boats tend to have.

[Maxwellian]

As far as I see it when charging for something there has to be a value proposition to the items being charged for and a very clear way of identifying/differentiation items so that they can be fairly charged for in the eyes of those paying the charge.

Achieving the above so that all parties feel it is fair is going to need Solomon and Harry Potter. It is just not going to happen, but I see nothing wrong with debating these issues on the forum. differences are opinions based of personal views they can sometimes be based on facts or research. These facts and research are very often also opinions at the time of making them. Yesterdays facts are often tomorrow errors as research and understanding differs.

So please debate and keep it friendly. I for one find this thread very interesting. 

I do have some opinions to add. Those items considered as a luxury item are often already paid for upon gaining the asset and unless it could be clearly identified to add cost to the BA in the upkeep and maintenance of the Broads, why should they be penalised by others. 

There are three potential measures (there may be many more): 

1. Time on Broads (many ways to measure. Why not black box all boats)
2. Space taken up by boat (many ways to actually measure)
3. Disruption to or derogation of the Broads and surrounding areas (as seen by the discussion above it is very difficult to measure. (Again black box would track speed, but boat wash etc differs from design to design for any given speed)

Love and Kisses to all. please play nicely. :)

[dnks34]

Your taking me out of context Senator, but amusing all the same! 

Lets say the BA put a £30 annual surcharge on twin engined boats and dropped the price of an outboard dinghy, would it hurt that much.....really?!! 

 

[JennyMorgan]

9 minutes ago, MauriceMynah said:

I was going to add that Mrs JM is cross because now there's water all over the living room carpet in front of the fire...

But I won't cos that really would get me a slap! :)

Errr, we have progressed from a galvanised bath in front of the fire. We now have a plastic one!!

Let's nail this once and for all, just because someone sees the shortcomings of a 45' boat with a 15' beam as being best suited to the Broads does not mean that they are prejudiced, or even jealous. Indeed in reading all the posts on this thread I have yet to see any evidence of prejudice. 

 

[dnks34]

18 minutes ago, TheQ said:

That depends on the price of deck shoes, I've never paid over 30 pounds and couldn't afford too.

Since when did brantano sell deck shoes!!  Are they still in stock!!!! 

[Baitrunner]

Senator, don't forget stern drives with duo props - that's a 4x multiplier!! I'm off

Too many factors to take into account here and I think we all want what's best for us and someone will bound to be penalised to the benefit of others. I'm staying out of this one and will no doubt have to forgo the new deck shoes and bottle of Aldi plonk.

[senator]

dropping the price of an outboard dinghy I can agree with, think that is ridiculous but then if my only boat was an outboard dinghy, instead of something used once a year when the moorings are full and I had to moor the other side of the river to Surlingham Ferry, would it still be outrageous? And why twin engines over older engines? why not just put an extra £30 or even better £100 toll on boats over say 20 years old. That would encourage people to change to newer more environmentally friendly engine craft and also support the local boat building economy. Win Win

Just to clarify, I don't want extra tolls put on to any craft. all craft should be tolled exactly the same, purely by m2 area or even fairer length, as this is what takes up moorings.

Hire craft, really, in what other area would a commercial operator pay even the same as the general public. anywhere else preferential rates through volume would have been negotiated, certainly not pay 2.5 times the toll.

[JennyMorgan]

26 minutes ago, senator said:

What about Bow thrusters Dnks34, surely these are not only a luxury but, as they move water sideways, likely to wash away all of the banks, houses and any wildlife left that hasn't been poisoned by those boats that use petrol and as such produce Carbon monoxide?

New campaign, any boats with bow thrusters to pay triple the toll? 

 

Can't argue with that, where do I sign?

[Baitrunner]

 

2 minutes ago, senator said:

Just to clarify, I don't want extra tolls put on to any craft. all craft should be tolled exactly the same, purely by m2 area or even fairer length, as this is what takes up moorings.

 

Actually I stern moor and have always been intrigued as to what the length of my boat has to do with it (in the marina anyway, tolls wise I can see this). A 50ft boat takes up the same quay heading as a 30ft one in my marina (OK a little bit wider, but most berths are fixed widths anyway.

[senator]

There is always one isn't there 

That is one to take up with he marina though Mark, not the BA I suppose they could argue they could get in another row if all the boats were shorter.

[Baitrunner]

Might be on a tough one with that as they all do the same - think they might tell me where to place a large item

Here's one for the argumentative amongst you (Oh sorry that's all of us)

If my boat is out on the hard for 6 months, should I be allowed to claim a refund on my BA tolls - a bit like I can with the car tax?

[Baitrunner]

Might be on a tough one with that as they all do the same - think they might tell me where to place a large item

Here's one for the argumentative amongst you (Oh sorry that's all of us)

If my boat is out on the hard for 6 months, should I be allowed to claim a refund on my BA tolls - a bit like I can with the car tax?

[Baitrunner]

Not sure how I did a double post there!

[JawsOrca]

1 minute ago, Baitrunner said:

Not sure how I did a double post there!

Empathising your point clearly  

[senator]

You have a fair point Mark but as boating is to most people seasonal I am guessing the end result would just be to double the monthly equivalent toll.

More importantly should the BA be allowed to keep the toll money when a boat leaves the system and then charge the same person again for their new boat and charge them 12 months even though their may be only 4 months left?

That was the point that the BA really peed me off and opened my eyes to just how many other things were wrong with the organisation.

[Maxwellian]

Statutory Off River Notification (SORN) like it or Statutory Off Broad Notification by just adding one letter (SOBN)

[TheQ]

42 minutes ago, dnks34 said:

Since when did brantano sell deck shoes!!  Are they still in stock!!!! 

Who? if it ain't on Amazon or Ebay these days I can't afford it!!

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Seafarer-Yachtsman-Leather-Shoes-Sizes/dp/B00EB83ZFE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1446549491&sr=8-1&keywords=deck+shoes

 

[senator]

Actually technically you can Sorn the boat off but only at the start of a new toll year, you can't reclaim tolls once paid. the other issue is if you put it back in to use in October you still have to pay 12 months to use it till March 31st

[imtamping2]

SORN......... Some Other Reason to Not pay......

[Guest]

So many "good" reasons why other people boats should be charged more......

I've just thought of another one,

...most of the "suitable" Broads craft, like ex-hire cruisers, are often far more luxurious inside than their seagoing counterparts, length for length.

Consequently, many are well used as second home "country cottages", providing luxurious accommodation, whether moored at their base marina or out on the system.

Those owners get far more value for money with their toll, perhaps they should pay more as well ?

The bottom line for me is that I wouldn't want any other toll payer to subsidise my tolls, I'm quite happy to pay my fair share, (as the situation does exist at the moment, based on size.)

[senator]

Actually Strowager I have just realised, although all boats occupy the same water there is a differential toll already, for some reason one class pays a lower price per m2, can that be right? Surely it should be the same for all, has to be the only fair way to do things?

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, senator said:

Actually Strowager I have just realised, although all boats occupy the same water there is a differential toll already, for some reason one class pays a lower price per m2, can that be right? Surely it should be the same for all, has to be the only fair way to do things?

...and they only occupy the same space when they're stationary Senator.

When the wind is ahead of them, their effective beam widens to that of the river......

[BroadScot]

Wow! 200 replies....and counting! 

If nowt else, the yearly TOLL debate sure makes for interesting reading !

Iain