Advice from those in the know

[Guest]

1 hour ago, JawsOrca said:

.......if the new engine doesn't fit on that saildrive and/or the saildrive isn't in a brilliant condition (It's probably ok), hen I think it's a matter of glueing the hole out and going down the outboard route but I'd say just do something (almost original) like: http://www.canalscape.net/Dont%20Call%20it%20a%20Barge/Cruiser%20Diversity/LR%20Norman%2027%20CP.jpg 

 And then putting two albeit flimsy stern decks each side of it (and a couple of fenders) to protect the outboard.. (the transom will need a chunk of timber to reinforce it and a well made around it inside (which can be done in ply just to stop splash back.. You would obviously get alot of deck space back.. but don't forget outboards aren't cheap but selling the leg could pay for a decent second hand one)..

If it was just a matter of replacing the small circular saildrive hole  with a stainless steel disc then that would be a cost effective and simple solution Alan.

If you look carefully at Steve & Deb's photo though, there is a large  tunnel underneath that cuts well up into the transom, and crucially, weakens the joint between it and the boat's bottom.

If you cut out  a conventional outboard well  above it, there will be hardly anything left for the outboard to be bolted too.

Although it could all be cut out (tunnel as well), and rebuilt to a conventional outboard well, I doubt whether that would be economic, compared to selling the boat and buying another cruiser already equipped that way.

I think that bolting a bracket on the transom will probably be the only cost effective solution without spending far more money than the boat will then be worth.

[JawsOrca]

Hmm good point.. I'd forgotten about that tunnel profile...

Hmm  

[diesel falcon]

I gave got an answer but your wallet won t like you!!

here s an example of your problem

www.balticsailing.blogspot.co.uk

i d have a dig around for a second hand engine and cost out an outboard  conversion and transom works against inboard personally I go inboard everytime

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, diesel falcon said:

I gave got an answer but your wallet won t like you!!

here s an example of your problem

www.balticsailing.blogspot.co.uk

i d have a dig around for a second hand engine and cost out an outboard  conversion and transom works against inboard personally I go inboard everytime

That's a good find DF, probably the best solution, all things considered.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-r8lzx5sgp1s/UkvU3pDZZFI/AAAAAAAADFM/JM8pMUekvxY/s640/md7a+repowering.tiff

[diesel falcon]

http://balticsailing.blogspot.fi/2013/04/re-powering-with-nanni-321-nearing.html

links didn,t work on my mobile so try this

[quo vadis]

Links aren't the only thing that don't work on your mobile 

[Guest]

I've resurrected Steve & Debs thread because I've just noticed a similar Norman on ebay in Norfolk as a classified advert.

It illustrates how you have to be very mindful of the economics of re-engining a boat or modifying one to take an outboard motor.

Here's a nice looking Norman 23 with a newish 15hp 4 stroke outboard, for an asking price of £4750.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NORMAN-23FT-MOTOR-CRUISER-LATER-SHAPE-15HP-4-STROKE-OUTBOARD-/331707160105?hash=item4d3b499629:g:FsIAAOSw5ZBWGnHN

I myself re-engined a 20ft cruiser a few years ago, at a cost of £5000, and it only increased the value by £1000....

[JennyMorgan]

Looks good, and practical. Nice boat, probably fit under Potter too

[LadyPatricia]

That's a lovely little Norman Strowey.

 

This is the dilemma we are in at the moment. If we can't find another identical engine then where do you draw the line when it comes to the cost against the value of the boat. What is a boat with a faulty engine worth? Not a lot I would have thought.

we are still looking for an MD11c but they appear to be like the proverbial rocking horse manure 

 

Steve

[JanetAnne]

Is having your original block repaired really not an option. I would be very surprised if it can not be done no matter how badly cracked. We have had four very old blocks repaired locally over the time and three were 100% successful. the fourth had to be done a second time which was annoying but it was done and thats my point.

[Maxwellian]

http://www.boatshop24.com/en/volvo-penta-md11c-mit-saildrive/Engine/922174#EVZTyCdVvBt8DU2w.97

[JawsOrca]

9 hours ago, LadyPatricia said:

That's a lovely little Norman Strowey.

 

This is the dilemma we are in at the moment. If we can't find another identical engine then where do you draw the line when it comes to the cost against the value of the boat. What is a boat with a faulty engine worth? Not a lot I would have thought.

we are still looking for an MD11c but they appear to be like the proverbial rocking horse manure 

 

Steve

Steve, Sorry Mate, Not saying anything I've not said already... As you know at present poor ladyP is only worth the second hand value of the consistent parts as a hull is worth close to nothing. The majority of the value of a motor boat is in the motor as that's the largest most valuable part, so sadly as LadyP's engine is in bits the next value is really the saildrive.. Secondhand that's probably like £500.. There will be a small value in other bits but as you know Orca was purchased for £1.

Sadly owning a boat isn't something which you can really apply any logic of value or money making (can't think of the term at this hour). So sadly as you've got money in you need to now spend your way out. We lost money on our two earlier boats... it's a bit like a pet.. you get un-calculable amount of pleasure back but it makes no since in terms of cost value.. I believe though if you spend wisely you will get most of our money back when you come to sell (The boat not the cat).

My advice (as always) is if you want to keep it you spend your money wisely and on the best thing for long term benefit v lower cost of maintenance.  That's why we suggested reengining with new/as new which is just what we did with Orca. Although this is expensive it should restore your faith in the boat and reduce any expenditure over the long term, thus giving you years and years of pleasure  (Yeah alternatives to new are a good reconditioned MD2 or a good secondhand one (The one up north is probably good... keep trying... paypal or agree to pay on collection by the lorry) If you plan now is to sell her then yes you need to keep the cost down but considering the current resale value of the boat is so low at present you will still really need to/should put an engine in which is going to run.

I wouldn't go for an outboard conversion if it was mine, my reasons being (and I know I'm probably wrong here) I like to keep things as originally intended as I believe there's more value in original (I.e when this boat was sold I bet the inboard was more expensive to buy than the outboard and as such that extra value has stayed with the boat so undoing that devalues the boat (and moreso than an original outboard as it's clear it's not original).. I know this isn't an expensive boat but that's the logic I apply.

6 hours ago, JanetAnne said:

Is having your original block repaired really not an option. I would be very surprised if it can not be done no matter how badly cracked. We have had four very old blocks repaired locally over the time and three were 100% successful. the fourth had to be done a second time which was annoying but it was done and thats my point.

The blocks are individual (http://www.marinepartseurope.com/PentaPictures500/7150.jpg) with very small water jackets going between the cylinder liners on the corner (a very very weak and somewhat stupid design) , they have cracked all the way down this jacket on both the outside and the inner (liner) side. So effectivly they have opened up like a "C" shape now  so to weld them they would need to be clamped together and welded inside (where the liner is) and then machined out so the liner can go back in.. plus the crack is visible on the top (and that can't be machined down really because there's recessed for seals etc) so it's a guess if the gasket would reseal we guess it would though. So although Dave has welded blocks before this isn't something he can really do and it's a no easy job for a professional..  It would be easier and more cost effective to find replacement blocks (but this apparently most blocks of this age have this now and trying to find good blocks has been tough! (We did find them but they are the same price as a full engine).  (If you know someone that can do this tough JA I'm sure Steve would bite your arm off to know).

It's a hard call and I can see why Steve is pulling his hair out.. If it was mine and I wanted to keep it and money wasn't a huge considerationI'd put a new engine in.. If money was a slight consideration I'd put a reconditioned VP in.. If money was a big consideration, I'd weld the blocks up and throw it back together it's going to run no worse than it did before  

[JanetAnne]

If the block is out of Particia I'd be happy to get my humans to collect it and have it assessed by 'our' chap. They are up at the marina next week...

[LadyPatricia]

JA, I've sent you a PM

 

 

[Oddfellow]

Any good?

http://engines.apolloduck.co.uk/feature.phtml?id=328857

 

 

[LadyPatricia]

Thanks Andy,

 

unfortunately that one sold about 3 months ago although the advert still says available. Ive spoken to Sean and he has advise to give him a call every couple of months incase he gets another one in

 

 

[Oddfellow]

Two MD listings on ebay here. 

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Volvo-Penta-Diesel-Marine-Engine-MD2B-2-cylinder-25hp-2-available/172087291897?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D35308%26meid%3D584deac84c3c4a72b17508ded7251551%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D2%26rkt%3D6%26mehot%3Dlo%26sd%3D331770511154

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Volvo-Penta-MD11D-and-a-Volvo-MD11C-Boat-Engine-Marine-Engine-Inboard/331770511154?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D35308%26meid%3Ded74bb81fe9e4fc398477941082ef237%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D4%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D252279998296

[Mowjo]

Know nothing about this engine but would this one be any good,,, maybe Andy or someone knows if they are compatable,,

Volvo MD11C

[Oddfellow]

I can't say I know a lot. I suspect that they are simple revisions of the same unit.

As a drop-in replacement, it's probably ok, but don't take my word for it. To interchange certain parts, possibly not. There were differences between even revisions of the same engine - for instance two different head gaskets for different aged MD2As. 

 

 

[LadyPatricia]

Thank Andy and Frank, 

 

Frank the link you put up is the one from earlier in the thread. Sean's website and his ad on apolloduck still say available but he sold it months ago.

 

Andy thanks for the eBay links. After lots of searching we managed to find the parts needed for our md11c. All has been put back together and she is running ...... We'll sort of. It's very hard to start and plumes of white smoke from the exhaust as well as a bit of a slick on the water. 

Sure we will get there ....... Eventually 

 

steve

[Oddfellow]

7 minutes ago, LadyPatricia said:

Thank Andy and Frank, 

 

Frank the link you put up is the one from earlier in the thread. Sean's website and his ad on apolloduck still say available but he sold it months ago.

 

Andy thanks for the eBay links. After lots of searching we managed to find the parts needed for our md11c. All has been put back together and she is running ...... We'll sort of. It's very hard to start and plumes of white smoke from the exhaust as well as a bit of a slick on the water. 

Sure we will get there ....... Eventually 

 

steve

Don't sound too sweet. Perhaps a spare might not be a bad idea?

 

[MBA Marine]

26 minutes ago, LadyPatricia said:

Thank Andy and Frank, 

 

Frank the link you put up is the one from earlier in the thread. Sean's website and his ad on apolloduck still say available but he sold it months ago.

 

Andy thanks for the eBay links. After lots of searching we managed to find the parts needed for our md11c. All has been put back together and she is running ...... We'll sort of. It's very hard to start and plumes of white smoke from the exhaust as well as a bit of a slick on the water. 

Sure we will get there ....... Eventually 

 

steve

Sounds like you have not got the head torqued down correctly, or debris stopping the head sealing 100% on the gasket.