Speed Cameras On The Rivers

[ExUserGone]

I see from the newsletter in the toll bumpf that BA have 8 new radar guns that are fully portable, I hope they are better trained than EA anglian region inspector that once shouted at me about my speed while pointing a radar gun at me from another boat moving towards me, needless to say I shouted back and it wasn't polite! Can they not work out a speed gun needs to be stationary?

[Broadsword]

Not necessarily, but if not they have to be pretty sophisticated, so as to allow a calculation which takes account of the movement of the vehicle/vessel carrying the gun... I doubt the one you met was that clever!  

 

[Wonderwall]

What exactly is the protocol should a hirer for example , be caught speeding?

are they looking for aggressive speeding past moored craft , or is it tucked away somewhere as per our boys in blue?  Considering one can never be sure what speed you are doing in a boat  ( you only have revs for a guide) there surely must be a fair bit of leniency .

 

[BroadAmbition]

I once got famously bollocked from a part time weekend warrior river inspector for doing 4:2 mph in Horning. Yes :2mph over the limit, goodness knows how he worked that one out.  The thing is, nowadays with our Etrax onboard we can now accurately monitor 'B.A' speed down to :1 of an mph

I later got a written apology from the senior river inspector on the matter

Griff

[Wonderwall]

So is their a history of fines being handed out ?

[SPEEDTRIPLE]

We`ve discussed this before. The idea of a speed camera measuring your speed on a boat is absolutely pathetic at best. Hyperthetical situation, you`re cruising down the Yare on the wide twisty section between Hardley Cross and Hardley dyke. If you are a couple of boats widths away from the bank, at any given revs, you will vary your speed considerably, as the tide is always faster on the OUTSIDE of a bend in the river. When we had Maffett cruisers Kestrel 2 years ago, she was fitted with a GPS speed log, which was actually very helpful. It proved my above point, and by a substantial margin, sometimes by more than 1 mph,at the same revs. It`s also to do with wind speed, and whether you have fenders dragging in the water, again being proved as above by half a mile an hour, so we re-set them higher.  One of the biggest problems is tide direction and strength, and you may be registering revs that give 4 mph in static water, but against the tide you could be doing one or two mph less, or if with the tide, one or two mph hour more, and there`s the big problem. It`s just another way of the BA using suspect methods to raise revinue when they eventually get the authority to dish out fines . Speed must NEVER be measured over land, as if you are pushing a fast tide, in a 4 mph section, you could actually be going as much as 7 mph over the water, which would be well legal, but possibly cause seriously dangerous levels of wash. And before people say you should`nt create a big wash, if you`re doing the "dubiously legal" speed limit, you`re doing NOTHING wrong.

An absolutely stupid idea, dreamed up by beaurotwatts possibly with no real knowledge of boating and boat handling?.

[Wonderwall]

My apologies, I am not aware of this being discussed previously.

So , if anyone can inform me, do they/ have they / can they hand out a fine for speeding on the river?

 

of course I would take bad to being on holiday and being fined for going a couple of miles over the limit between for example Stracey arms and Yarmouth. I have however seen idiots ( as I'm sure we all have) who would benefit from a large deterrent.  

[JawsOrca]

I believe the BA rangers have pdq machines aboard and can take cash as you can pay tolls to them. So yes I suspect you can be fined there and then.. but I'm just guessing.

Neil the speed limit is over the ground as it should be as you should be measuring your speed via gps.  It's the same on every Port and river across the world.. the ba IMHO are not dreaming things up just to annoy you. Speed limits on the river are to be obeyed IMHO.  

Edit to add there is no correct way to measure speed through the water. And the speeds should always be in relation to your wash so if you are not speeding but causing too much wash then slow down...

[Broadsword]

They can use them at How Hill, please - even if they don't work, as long as the sight of them slows the Hooray Henry's down! I still have the scar from when I spilt me tea down me front! 

[TheQ]

9 hours ago, Wonderwall said:

My apologies, I am not aware of this being discussed previously.

So , if anyone can inform me, do they/ have they / can they hand out a fine for speeding on the river?

 

of course I would take bad to being on holiday and being fined for going a couple of miles over the limit between for example Stracey arms and Yarmouth. I have however seen idiots ( as I'm sure we all have) who would benefit from a large deterrent.  

2 miles an hour over the limit is 50% for a 4MPH limit or 33% for a 6MPH limit, or 40MPH in a 30MPH Limit would you not expect to be fined for driving at 40 in a 30MPH limit?

[Guest]

". It`s just another way of the BA using suspect methods to raise revinue when they eventually get the authority to dish out fines . Speed must NEVER be measured over land, as if you are pushing a fast tide, in a 4 mph section, you could actually be going as much as 7 mph over the water, which would be well legal, but possibly cause seriously dangerous levels of wash. And before people say you should`nt create a big wash, if you`re doing the "dubiously legal" speed limit, you`re doing NOTHING wrong. "

I think most of this statement is wrong. I dont think the BA get any of the fines given out at court. As a public body all fines go to central court funds. The BA cant dish out fines - the magistrates/courts do that. As the byelaws are written the speed MUST be measured as speed over the ground. The wash issue is a seperate offence and is dealt with differently at court so if you are doing the speed limit against the tide and creating too much wash you are doing SOMETHING wrong.

Also from Jaws Orcas comment i have have not met a Ranger yet with a pdq on their boat. They can take money for tolls by cash or cheque but they cannot take money for fines. There is no on the spot fine system in the byelaws yet.

[Hockham Admiral]

Welcome back to the NBN, Andy. We haven't heard from you since November....

Your second paragraph is correct as I read the rules and regulations; I think it just needs a big dollop of common sense from all of us.

[JennyMorgan]

The biggest grouse is, I suspect, that tidal flow is not a consideration when assessing a boat's speed. As has probably been suggested, a boat doing four miles an hour through the water, with a three mile an hour tide against it would only be going one mile an hour over land yet with the tide going with the boat that would mean eight mph over land. Okay, there are other factors but the theory is more or less right. Technology should surely allow tidal flow to be considered, but it isn't. However, most of us have access to GPS, either via our mobiles or gizmos such as a Garmin Etrex.  On the bright side it is a fact that the BA is generally pretty realistic when it comes to prosecution, you'd have to be a repeat offender or well over the limit for them to go beyond the warning stage. I've been using the Broads as my playground for over sixty years and it's well over fifty since I was last nicked for speeding. For most of us it just isn't an issue.

[Guest]

13 hours ago, JawsOrca said:

there is no correct way to measure speed through the water

I think it would be more correct to say that it's much more involved to accurately measure speed through the water.

Modern electronic impeller transducers do a reasonable job if sited and calibrated properly, and old hand knot lines were very accurate indeed, but impractical in inland waterways.

My GPS/chart plotter/fishfinder displays speed over ground and speed through the water, because like most of them, it has a GPS and an impeller sensor.

What is practically impossible is a way of measuring a boat's speed through the water from another boat not moving and keeping pace with it, as is the case for most BA rangers.

Hence the use of the GPS, the only practical way to measure speed remotely from another craft.

Yes, a variable tidal flow of up to 5mph can make a mockery of 4-6mph over ground speed limits, but as Peter said, BA Rangers are usually aware of that, and take it into consideration with their GPS readouts.

Another factor to consider is that speed limits over ground are relevant when passing stationary objects, (moored craft and banks). Damage caused by any collision with them is then directly proportional to speed over ground, rather than speed through the water).

[Wonderwall]

13 hours ago, TheQ said:

2 miles an hour over the limit is 50% for a 4MPH limit or 33% for a 6MPH limit, or 40MPH in a 30MPH Limit would you not expect to be fined for driving at 40 in a 30MPH limit?

Thanks for the math lesson

the two aren't really comparable though are they. It all depends on what tyres you have on your boat of course

[TheQ]

Tyres make good fenders ( if you don't mind the black marks) therefore they are good at stopping you going too fast....

 

 

 

 

and  banging against the bank

[3Babygirls]

Well its to do with the wash.  I've been twice a year since 1986 and I've seen a difference in the people on the boats  very rude and with what comes out there mouths. There mothers would be proud