Advice On Potential Boat Share

[MrPlant]

Hi,

Not been on the site for a few years since we sold our last boat, we've owned 3 boats in the past & hired many over the years. Like most on this forum we have a love for all things Norfolk Broads and boating, no matter where we go in the world on our travels, the memories from the Norfolk Broads are always there. However after 3 years without ownership and only managing 1 short hire break & 1 full week hire, plus a few day boats over the past 3 years we have started to get the obsession back of getting back on the water more permanent. However with work & kids we have to accept we just don't have the time for full ownership, and every time we look to book a hire boat or grab a last minute break the costs are so high compared to somewhere in the sun. The last full week we had was on Richardson's Carousel, at a cost of more than £2000, albeit it was mid summer holidays...

Over the winter we have been browsing the for sale section tempting ourselves & looking at hire sites looking to book another hire for this summer. But then I kept stumbling across boat shares for sale, I've always been a little suspicious of share agreements and thought they have been to risky, however that has been on property not boats. Anyhow I have done a little research over the past few nights and read up shares for sale and the costings seam very reasonable... So I have started to think that a share could be the perfect middle ground for what we require as a busy family. I've seen shares on the BCBM site and I've seen boats on both the south & northern broads, as we live within 1 hours drive of Wroxham/Horning it would have to be located there.

 

However my main reason for this post is I'm looking for some advice from you knowledgeable people and would be grateful if you could share any answers, advice or first hand experience on my below concerns:

1.For shares for sale on BCBM, is it only available to buy from them or do the shareholders advertise elsewhere or I've seen some with Richardsons name next to them, can you deal with them direct? (I havn't called or emailed anyone yet)

2. The yearly maintenance cost, I've viewed the budgets for previous/current years, they all seam very reasonable, however what happens when a new engine is needed or an un-expected expensive fix? do all share holders get a nice invoice through the post? My main concern is how are the charges worked out/managed if there is no set fixed price contract in place... is there anything put in place to protect shareholders of an unwelcome surprise?

3. Responsibilities of cleaning? some I have seen advertised with valet, some are advertised as you clean it when you leave. what are peoples experiences?

4. Fuel & Gas responsibilities?

5. Bedding responsibilities?

6. Accidental damaged caused by share holder or other major damage from other boaters? Dont get me wrong we have and always are very careful boaters, however accidents can happen. I can still remember the time I pulled away from a very windy side on mooring where there was a great dirty sharp piece of rusty metal hanging from the quay heading, I gently pulled away but the wind kept pushing the boat sideways, as the aft came round I heard the horrendous scrape, at the next mooring I had a horrible deep scratch in the newly polished gel coat, we did get it fixed but I can remember it was a good few hundred pound to fix...

 

Thanks for taking the time to read my post, and as said any advice or answers will be greatly appreciated. Shaun

 

 

[Londonlad1985]

Hi Shaun,

I do hope syndicate boats are the way to go too. Today is the completion date for my purchase of a share in Evening Shaow. I take her out for yhe 1st time on 17th March. Evening shadow's chairman is Also a member of the this forum. As far as your questions go ill have a stab at answering as a novice;

1. You don't have to go through BCBM but they can act as an agent. In hindsight I would have found the share holder and contacted them directly. I found BCBM a bit difficult.

2. Yearly maintenance cost is set at the AGM. As I understnd it you may be required to weigh out for a large unexpected cost if one arises. Check the syndicate fund reserves and specific rules. 

3. Cleaning - this depends on the boat. On ES the owners are required to clean outside to the rubbing strake and inside after their holiday. There is an option to have this done by boat yard and a valet and pay cash at end of holiday.

4. Fuel - You must return the boat to the yard with a full fuel tank and having been pumped out after your holiday. I believe this is standard practice. For the gas, on ES owner buys a bottle and claims cost back from syndicate.

5. As for bedding. ES has duvets and pillows. Owners bring their own linen.

6. Same responsibilities as private boat ownership. Or anyone helming a boat. However there maybe added responsibility as the boat is not just your pride and joy it's 11 other families' too! 

Hope this helps, FYI there are several shares for sale and at least 3 syndicate boats based at Richardsons Horning.

Feel free to PM me for anything else. I'll post a link to my 1st syndicate post. There was some great info there. I expect the others will soon have plenty of good info soon too. 

Andy

[Londonlad1985]

My syndicate post. 

[ranworthbreeze]

Hello Shaun,

My advice is to look on the www.boatshare.co.uk website for the various syndicates on the Norfolk Broads; some you will find are private syndicates, some are fully managed by BCBM and some partially.

There are about 10 syndicate boats on the Broads and the shares can be fixed weeks, drawn out of the hat both for standard or school shares.

You will find that the syndicates vary from the number of weeks offered in allocation of the share, whether it has a sinking fund or not, what the management fee covers and how this is broken down, in some cases this is a standard management fee plus a maintenance fee.

Have a look at all of the syndicates, contact the syndicates and talk to the Chairman or the contact in the syndicate that administers the sale of shares. Ask for a draft copy of any contract or contracts that you will need to sign. Ask if you can visit the boat: and try to arrange visits over a few days on the Broads. Some of the syndicates will accommodate you with arranging one of their owners to show you around the boat and take you for a trip on the river, so you can get a feel of the boat.

After showing a great deal of people around our boat over the last 17 years make sure that you take your wife/partner with you, look at all the plus points and negative ones as well, take it all in and go away and think about all the boats that you will have seen over those few days and make a decision if that syndicate and the boat is for you.  If it is then enter into negotiations with the syndicate.

If you want any advice regarding boat syndicates please feel free to contact me, as I say I have had my syndicate shares since our boat was launched in 2001.

Regards

Alan

Alan Hood

Chairman & Trustee 

Ranworth Breeze Boat Syndicate

[SueH]

2 hours ago, Londonlad1985 said:

Hi Shaun,

I do hope syndicate boats are the way to go too. Today is the completion date for my purchase of a share in Evening Shaow. I take her out for yhe 1st time on 17th March. Evening shadow's chairman is Also a member of the this forum. As far as your questions go ill have a stab at answering as a novice;

1. You don't have to go through BCBM but they can act as an agent. In hindsight I would have found the share holder and contacted them directly. I found BCBM a bit difficult.

2. Yearly maintenance cost is set at the AGM. As I understnd it you may be required to weigh out for a large unexpected cost if one arises. Check the syndicate fund reserves and specific rules. 

3. Cleaning - this depends on the boat. On ES the owners are required to clean outside to the rubbing strake and inside after their holiday. There is an option to have this done by boat yard and a valet and pay cash at end of holiday.

4. Fuel - You must return the boat to the yard with a full fuel tank and having been pumped out after your holiday. I believe this is standard practice. For the gas, on ES owner buys a bottle and claims cost back from syndicate.

5. As for bedding. ES has duvets and pillows. Owners bring their own linen.

6. Same responsibilities as private boat ownership. Or anyone helming a boat. However there maybe added responsibility as the boat is not just your pride and joy it's 11 other families' too! 

 

Moonlight Shadow, the last BCBM boat based at Brundall, is similar, the only difference is that the gas bottles are changed by Broom and charged to the syndicate.  We have been with the syndicate for a number of years and have loved it.  She is a very safe and easy boat to handle and the dog loves it.

Unfortunately circumstances have changed and our two shares (8 weeks a year) are now for sale.  We would love to sell them privately !!!!

Sue.

[Matt]

Are the “kids” at school?


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[Mark]

Hi Shaun, London Lad/Andy  has answered much of what you were asking about but just as an aside we on Thunder  are currently having our engine replaced at Richardsons having voted to move base from Brundall  to  Horning  this season. As  far as the expense is concerned, anything that is suggested/needed gets discussed at the AGM , voted on and provisons made. In this case we first discussed the engine issue  it at the 2016 AGM and voted to set  up a reserve fund so that  members increased their monthly contributions for a period of time to cover the majority of the costs  that we will now incur this month.    We currently have a share for sale as you may have seen from the BCBM site and if you do need any info pls just PM me. The engine is currently  being fitted  over these two weeks which is also our WM so any share purchase from anyone now  would be after completion. 

Valet cleaning  on board is done each week at turnaround time  by a cleaner employed by BCBM     

[MrPlant]

2 hours ago, SueH said:

Moonlight Shadow, the last BCBM boat based at Brundall, is similar, the only difference is that the gas bottles are changed by Broom and charged to the syndicate.  We have been with the syndicate for a number of years and have loved it.  She is a very safe and easy boat to handle and the dog loves it.

Unfortunately circumstances have changed and our two shares (8 weeks a year) are now for sale.  We would love to sell them privately !!!!

Sue.

 

 

Hi Sue, I have seen your for sale, but your based at Brundall? we would want to have a base in the Northern Broads. Dont get me wrong I love "parts" of the southern broads, however with limited spare time I feel the Northern suits our needs more if we do not wish to travel to far.

 

41 minutes ago, Matt said:

Are the “kids” at school?


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Yes they are at school, but I have no issues in removing them if needed, life skills and time spent on the Broads will be much more beneficial for them as they get older. Also they love a few days at the grandparents.

34 minutes ago, Mark said:

Hi Shaun, London Lad/Andy  has answered much of what you were asking about but just as an aside we on Thunder  are currently having our engine replaced at Richardsons having voted to move base from Brundall  to  Horning  this season. As  far as the expense is concerned, anything that is suggested/needed gets discussed at the AGM , voted on and provisons made. In this case we first discussed the engine issue  it at the 2016 AGM and voted to set  up a reserve fund so that  members increased their monthly contributions for a period of time to cover the majority of the costs  that we will now incur this month.    We currently have a share for sale as you may have seen from the BCBM site and if you do need any info pls just PM me. The engine is currently  being fitted  over these two weeks which is also our WM so any share purchase from anyone now  would be after completion. 

Valet cleaning  on board is done each week at turnaround time  by a cleaner employed by BCBM     

Thunder is a boat that stood out for me, if you dont mind me asking how much "approx" extra per year/month  has an engine replacement been for each holder? feel free to PM me that info if you wish.

You say Thunder was based at Brundall and voted to move for one season, does that mean Thunder will return back to Brundall next season?

Interesting comment on the valet Mark, is that valet included within your yearly costings?

 

Does anyone know of a syndicate that is permanent based up North?

Thanks for the answers Andy & Alan, they are all very useful, I guess like anything mechanical there will always been some grey areas's. My main concern with the slightly open ended contract is that although these boats are extremely well maintained and are beautifully looked after, they are getting older in age, and like anything mechanical the older they get the likely hood of higher maintenance will be there... I guess I'm thinking new engine/gearboxes, wiring, plumbing, re-fit's etc...???

[oldgregg]

I think you will find that Thunder is staying at Horning, Shaun.

[SueH]

1 minute ago, MrPlant said:

 

 

Does anyone know of a syndicate that is permanent based up North

Both Evening Shadow and Silver Cloud are based up North.

Sue

[Matt]

Thunder has moved to Horning until the owners vote to moved her elsewhere. I would imagine it is the same with any syndicate boat.

I believe Valet is included in the annual costs.

We paid an extra £10 a month for maybe 2 years for the engine and the syndicate also owned a share which was sold so really not much impact.

I would suggest that whatever boat you go for ask what is the bank account- a boat with £5k in the bank will absorb unforeseen costs than one with £500 in the bank!

Thunder does have 3 school holiday shares which take up most of the school holidays.

Let’s hope it warms up by Easter for mine!


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[webntweb]

Hello Shaun,

There is a share available in Lightning on www.boatshare.co.uk, in the classified section under "Other shares for sale".

Roy

[ranworthbreeze]

Hello Shaun,

As I said earlier syndicates do vary in how they manage their budgets.

For example we increased our Management fee this year to £650 per share (two weeks) this was to help pay for having the bow thruster replaced by a more powerful dual blade thruster (this required a new tube and controls) we also are having the forward and lounge seating recovered; this equates to £6500.00 out of this years budget.

Most of the current syndicate have some age on them, there is the new syndicate boat Endeavor 11 but this is also based at Broom's.

If a boat is well maintained there is no reason that will provide many years of service, of course in most syndicates there is always talk of trading up the boat, in our case we have not found as of yet a suitable boat.

Regards

Alan

[oldgregg]

47 minutes ago, ranworthbreeze said:

Most of the current syndicate have some age on them, there is the new syndicate boat Endeavor 11 but this is also based at Broom's.

Endeavour has been around for a while and sits in between Thunder and Lightning in age (Thunder is 1997, Lightning is 1994 and Endeavour is 1995). 

She's fitted to a high standard but the interior finish is very much of its time and some of the ex-hire boats have potentially aged better. Also, a share is more than double the price of the Shadow boats.

[TrevorAndDeirdre]

Hello Shaun

Evening Shadow is based in Horning at the Richardson's boats yard which was FB Wilds then Le Boat, then it went completely private. I am the chairman of Evening Shadow so if you have any questions just ask.

There is a similar boat in Blue Mist which is based in Wroxham, not sure if they have any shares at the moment thou.

There has been lost of good information for you, hope you find what you are looking for.

[Mark]

Shaun,  Matt has beatem me to it on the other items , but ref  cleaning, this is inc in the  fixed annual costing.

Thunder had been at Brundall since the syndicate started, so  this is the first time she has moved. Unless owners are not happy with Ricos or the site  it is not likely that we would  wish to move back, and this is  for the same reasons  (all in all)  that we left. The "home base"  is however an item on the AGM each year so technically we could be at a different base each year but in practise the Syndicate  boats do not  move very often, and it only comes up if owners have an issue. If you do have any other questions just let me know.       

[webntweb]

1 hour ago, oldgregg said:

Endeavour has been around for a while and sits in between Thunder and Lightning in age (Thunder is 1997, Lightning is 1994 and Endeavour is 1995). 

She's fitted to a high standard but the interior finish is very much of its time and some of the ex-hire boats have potentially aged better. Also, a share is more than double the price of the Shadow boats.

Lightning's first season in hire was 1995.

[oldgregg]

Ah, okay.

Her reg number suggests 1994, as that's the year the system changed - But Broom may have had a block of numbers.

[trambo]

Hi Shaun, I think all of your questions have been answered above but as a member of the Silver Cloud syndicate if you have any queries  about her just ask.

Fred

[Broads01]

Really good to see the nitty gritty details of syndicates posted here. Ive long been able to see myself going for it but I want the right combination of a boat that's right with a week allocation system I like. Unfortunately at the moment everything available isn't right for me in either one respect or the other. 

[MrPlant]

Once again many thanks for all of the very useful advice. At the moment the 2 which are standing out to us for our requirements is Thunder & Evening Shadow, both moored in Horning, both on the larger size and enough berths for us the kids & the grandparents if we all wish to go away together. Does anyone know of any other similar syndicates apart from these 2 in the Northern Broads? Silver cloud looks lovely but just not enough berths...

I feel a visit with the full family is needed to see which would be the most suitable.

I see Evening Shadow has 1 share for sale & thunder has 2 shares for sale. Could anyone point me in the right direction as to who owns these shares? or is it best to speak to the chairman of each?

 

 

 

[Londonlad1985]

I'd messages Trevor re. Evening Shadow. Also worth noting she may not always be based at Horning.

[Matt]

I think you are best odd speaking to BCBM about viewing etc.

I believe Thunder only has the one share for sale.

The other syndicate boat mentioned above is http://broadsboatshare.co.uk/7.html



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[ranworthbreeze]

11 hours ago, MrPlant said:

Once again many thanks for all of the very useful advice. At the moment the 2 which are standing out to us for our requirements is Thunder & Evening Shadow, both moored in Horning, both on the larger size and enough berths for us the kids & the grandparents if we all wish to go away together. Does anyone know of any other similar syndicates apart from these 2 in the Northern Broads? Silver cloud looks lovely but just not enough berths...

I feel a visit with the full family is needed to see which would be the most suitable.

I see Evening Shadow has 1 share for sale & thunder has 2 shares for sale. Could anyone point me in the right direction as to who owns these shares? or is it best to speak to the chairman of each?

 

 

 

Hello Shaun,

Here is a link to the BCBM website showing the Broads cruisers.

http://www.bcbm.co.uk/boats/broads-cruisers.html

Regards

Alan

 

[Mark]

15 hours ago, MrPlant said:

Once again many thanks for all of the very useful advice. At the moment the 2 which are standing out to us for our requirements is Thunder & Evening Shadow, both moored in Horning, both on the larger size and enough berths for us the kids & the grandparents if we all wish to go away together. Does anyone know of any other similar syndicates apart from these 2 in the Northern Broads? Silver cloud looks lovely but just not enough berths...

I feel a visit with the full family is needed to see which would be the most suitable.

I see Evening Shadow has 1 share for sale & thunder has 2 shares for sale. Could anyone point me in the right direction as to who owns these shares? or is it best to speak to the chairman of each?

 

 

 

Shaun, I,m Chairman of Thunder so feel free to PM me with any queries or can have a chat if you wish. Thunders turnaround day is Saturday so you would normally be able to have a look then and could be set up  in the morning with the owner coming off, or alternatively  BCBM have a guy who can show you around at that time if the owner needs to get away. Currently there is one share for sale.