Sad News

[ranworthbreeze]

Hi Dan,

Thank you for the information and your offer of supplying leaflets regarding CO.

Regards

Alan

[Guest]

Here's the downloadable and printable BSS "Carbon Monoxide Safety on Boats" PDF leaflet mentioned by teadaemon.

carbon-monoxide-safety-on-boats.pdf

[Stranger]

hi Alan   where in Sheffield r u  im in Woodhouse lol

plus ive just printed the post by strowager ty

[ranworthbreeze]

55 minutes ago, Stranger said:

hi Alan   where in Sheffield r u  im in Woodhouse lol

plus ive just printed the post by strowager ty

Hi Dave,

We are only up the hill from you in Frecheville.

Regards

Alan

[Stranger]

small world innit

[Vaughan]

EDP24 this afternoon has said that post mortem results have been inconclusive.

They say that the police say, that more tests are needed to determine the cause of death but they still do not regard it as suspicious.

[loribear]

i hope you don't mind me asking , but can't dogs pick up on on co2 poisoning ? if it's wrong to ask this then just delete it, my heart goes out to all the family. lori

[kfurbank]

Although a full inquest is still to take place, the cause of death has now been confirmed as carbon monoxide poisoning.

A sad time for the family.

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/essex_couple_died_from_carbon_monoxide_poisoning_on_wroxham_boat_1_4589832

 

[BroadAmbition]

No doubt they will investigate the cause of how an appliance put the carbon monoxide into the crew quarter in the first place.  The fitter will be somewhat concerned as will whoever carried out the BSSc but then as with an MOT I think the BSSc is only valid at the time of inspection, after that it is the boat owners responsibility to make sure everything is maintained properly.   Whatever, this terrible accident sounds like it could and should have been avoided

Griff

[ranworthbreeze]

After the accidents and poor practices over the last few years, the warnings were there to be seen, it is a tragedy that this has happened to this couple and their dog, no doubt in the fullness of time a precise reason will be declared after the boat being checked over.

This is another warning to all of us be it on a boat or at home, carbon monoxide is a killer. Good ventilation and CO alarms are a must.

Regards

Alan

 

[BroadScot]

When Brittish Gas come to do the annual boiler service, its one of the first items they test is the CO sensor. Very noisey alarm!

Iain

[Cheesey]

A lot of people use their cooker as a space heater and I know its speculation, but I've seen a lot people do this not realizing that the cooker without a lot of ventilation is a killer. Some hirers I've talked too prefer doing this as it's cheaper than using diesel.

[quo vadis]

1 minute ago, Jonzo said:

That's quite scary.

I must admit it did cross my mind on our Canal boat last week that it was great that the heating was run off a gas boiler rather than an Eberspacher.

Now I am really confused

[quo vadis]

Ah I see

[Stranger]

well if boatyards wernt robbing us for the red derv they supply to us we wouldent watch the prices so much

[quo vadis]

16 minutes ago, Stranger said:

well if boatyards wernt robbing us for the red derv they supply to us we wouldent watch the prices so much

Harsh but Fair

[teadaemon]

4 hours ago, BroadAmbition said:

No doubt they will investigate the cause of how an appliance put the carbon monoxide into the crew quarter in the first place.  The fitter will be somewhat concerned as will whoever carried out the BSSc but then as with an MOT I think the BSSc is only valid at the time of inspection, after that it is the boat owners responsibility to make sure everything is maintained properly.   Whatever, this terrible accident sounds like it could and should have been avoided

Griff

Obviously it's only speculation as there's been nothing official as to the source of the CO, but who's to say that it's a fitted appliance? It could easily have been a charcoal barbecue of some kind, or a portable appliance such as a generator.

Speaking as a BSS examiner, after my first thoughts for those involved, families, friends, etc, one of the things that crossed my mind was "I hope it's not one of mine". Fortunately for me, it isn't.

I do agree that the vast majority of CO incidents are avoidable if boat owners and users take note of the available information on the subject and apply it properly. Having said that, I have come across one or two in the literature that would have been very hard to predict or foresee (one in particular involved a boat in a specific configuration, operating in a specific set of weather conditions, and resulted in a family getting non-fatal CO poisoning from exhaust fumes).

[Vaughan]

Ladies and Gentlemen, I suggest we "dwell a pause".

We have, naturally, speculated on what may have caused these deaths, and our comments have been based on experience.

But now that we know how they died, the "game" has changed.

Now it is a question of was there something wrong with the boat, or its maintenance, or inspection, or was it something else, did someone simply tape over a vent to stop a draught or were they having a barbecue and I suggest we CANNOT SPECULATE on that. We must leave it to official findings in due course.

[BroadScot]

2 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

We must leave it to official findings in due course.

Agreed!

[Viking23]

How could the BSS inspector be responsible? There are no current tests that the inspector can do and record that checks for level as CO as I recall. 

Most tests are more visual, like gas flame colour, or ventilation calculations at the time of inspection.

Just for reference, a couple of days ago I bought a carbon monoxide detector for home, in the past we carried the house one to and from the boat... That is now on the boat, and to be fair, sometimes goes off even with the cockpit cover down, as it picks up fumes from the outboard engine. Never does it with the canopy in the up position, all about air flow I guess. BUT.... Guessing is not the right thing to do with CO. Be safe, Carbon Monoxide, the silent killer.

Anyhow this is a Status Model DCMA with digital display, It's EN 50291-1  you have to decide if it's suitable for use in boats etc not all are.

Price £11.99 from Home Bargains, I was in the shop the other day walked past it, saw the price, thought about it for half a second, and in the trolley it went. Dispose of, in 7 years. 

Best price I have seen so far, also displays temperature in C.

Richard

[teadaemon]

14 hours ago, Viking23 said:

How could the BSS inspector be responsible? There are no current tests that the inspector can do and record that checks for level as CO as I recall. 

Most tests are more visual, like gas flame colour, or ventilation calculations at the time of inspection.

Just for reference, a couple of days ago I bought a carbon monoxide detector for home, in the past we carried the house one to and from the boat... That is now on the boat, and to be fair, sometimes goes off even with the cockpit cover down, as it picks up fumes from the outboard engine. Never does it with the canopy in the up position, all about air flow I guess. BUT.... Guessing is not the right thing to do with CO. Be safe, Carbon Monoxide, the silent killer.

Anyhow this is a Status Model DCMA with digital display, It's EN 50291-1  you have to decide if it's suitable for use in boats etc not all are.

Price £11.99 from Home Bargains, I was in the shop the other day walked past it, saw the price, thought about it for half a second, and in the trolley it went. Dispose of, in 7 years. 

Best price I have seen so far, also displays temperature in C.

Richard

A BSS examiner could be responsible under civil law, criminal law, and/or for breaching their service level agreement with the BSS scheme (which can lead to suspension or revocation of their registration). They owe their clients (and third parties) a duty of care, which means they can be liable for negligence if either the examination isn't conducted properly, or their actions on discovering a potential hazard aren't in line with the requirements of the scheme. (For example, if I notice any potential CO hazard, in addition to failing the appropriate ECP, I should issue a warning notice to the owner of the boat, leave a copy on the boat, and make the appropriate communications with the Boat Safety Scheme office.) More than that though, if there's an incident on a boat that I've done the BSS on, even if I've done everything right, I can expect (quite reasonably) that what I've done is going to be thoroughly investigated by a number of interested parties. That is never going to be pleasant. One of the reasons why I'm intending to pull out of the surveying business (although remaining as a BSS examiner) is that I don't like being employed mainly as somebody who's prepared to put their head (and bank account and PI insurance) on the block in the event of litigation in the future, rather than for my expertise in the role.*

*I should probably make clear, this isn't due to anything involving any of my clients on the Broads, who have, without exception, been exactly the kind of people I'm happy to deal with. I just wish I could say the same for certain other waterways.

[SPEEDTRIPLE]

I think any BSS examiner should NOT be liable in any way shaape or form. What if a boat has a BSS examination, passes with flying colours, then in a weeks time, there`s an explosion, because the owner DID`NT connect up the gas feed pipe to the cylinder correctly?.  You CAN`T hold somebody responsible for circumstances after the event, as you don`t know who or what`s happened in that time.  Remember the old saying, "An MOT is only for an hour on a certain day"  as soon as the car is driven away, it COUL be changed by an unscrupulous owner, and boating is the same.