Dart Charge

[grendel]

Earlier this week i headed for work as usual, departing home at 6.30am. just after 7am I arrived at the slip road off the A2 to the M25, it then took me 5 hours to move a couple of miles along the slip road (for those that dont know it, once you are on the slip road, there is no other way off than straight ahead.

Due to an accident on the Dartford Bridge (one car - BMW - 2am crashed into the barrier) they closed the bridge and installed a contra flow using one tunnel. The M25 was moving, it was just all of the lorries that closed up on the inside lane, causing nothing to get off the slip road. my work colleagues travelling along the M25 were a bit late (10.30 into the office) despite leaving later than me.

I arrived at 12.15pm.

I checked my dart charge account and saw that they had had the nerve to charge me for my 5 hour delay, we only got moving when the contra flow was removed and traffic started flowing normally again.

I sent an email to the dart charge people saying it was a bit of a cheek still charging me after I had been sitting in a queue of their own causation for 5 hours. this afternoon I recieved a reply:-

I am sorry to hear you were stuck in traffic, due to the major accident the Contraflow was in operation since 5:30am through the east bore tunnel to help with the flow of traffic. If you use the crossings you are still required to pay the charge.

to my mind that was worse than a simple apology, more like them sticking two fingers in the air and blowing a raspberry.

Plus how does it take them from 2am until 11am to replace 20 foot of crash barrier (as when I went home that night, that was all of the new barrier installed.

My other thought was how when you have driven through 4 miles of 50mph roadworks, and are in a 50mph speed limit across the bridge, do you have an accident with enough force to remove 20 foot of crash barrier at 2am in the morning when there is presumably little traffic about. 

[Matt]

I don't know anything not in the public domain but I believe the investigation is trying to ascertain whether it was an accident or a deliberate attempt to drive off the bridge (with a teenage passenger). Either way not a good place to be.

 

the knock on effect of the bridge closure is horrendous in Thurrock every time. Normal 15min journey at 4pm took 2 hours and my eldest was unable to attend his Cubs fun day as we could not get out of our estate- let alone the other 8 miles!

 

 

[SwanR]

That's a very good point about the charge when you have a day as horrendous as that turned out to be. You paid for a facility that wasn't even fully open! But I wonder whether they will follow up on anyone who didn't pay who used the crossing during that time. Wouldn't be fair if they let that go while taking the charge from all those who have accounts set up.

[Jim]

Since the Dart Charge system was set up, it seems travelling into Kent via the bridge has improved a lot.  However, the queues for the tunnels seem to be almost 3/4 miles tailback every weekday and have become a nightmare! 

[SteveO]

The recent  "improvements" made  to the Dartford crossing Northbound are, in my view, a complete failure. Charging people to use this blighted route is only rubbing salt in the wounds and I shudder to think how much of a brake on the national economy these delays impose. We should incentivise the " powers that be" to keep the traffic flowing by waiving the "leaving Kent tax"  for any vehicle delayed by more than, say, 30 minutes.

On a related subject, I wonder if anyone has stopped to think what a strategic vulnerability the crossing must represent, to our national infrastructure? We should get on and build a second crossing right away.

 

 

[marshman]

And yet when they talk of building a third river crossing nearer Gravesend, the locals are up in arms!!! Nimbyism!!!

[kfurbank]

51 minutes ago, SteveO said:

The recent  "improvements" made  to the Dartford crossing Northbound are, in my view, a complete failure. Charging people to use this blighted route is only rubbing salt in the wounds and I shudder to think how much of a brake on the national economy these delays impose. We should incentivise the " powers that be" to keep the traffic flowing by waiving the "leaving Kent tax"  for any vehicle delayed by more than, say, 30 minutes.

On a related subject, I wonder if anyone has stopped to think what a strategic vulnerability the crossing must represent, to our national infrastructure? We should get on and build a second crossing right away.

 

 

It's worse than that. Both Eurostar and C2C run underneath the QE2 bridge, good planning. Add to that the damage to the economy if people couldn't get to Lakeside for their shopping fix!!!

[FairTmiddlin]

Not just Eurostar and C2C

there's the Kent coast Javelins plus a line from gravesend Hoo and grain use the bridge that was weaved through the crossing

[grendel]

2 hours ago, SteveO said:

The recent  "improvements" made  to the Dartford crossing Northbound are, in my view, a complete failure. Charging people to use this blighted route is only rubbing salt in the wounds and I shudder to think how much of a brake on the national economy these delays impose. We should incentivise the " powers that be" to keep the traffic flowing by waiving the "leaving Kent tax"  for any vehicle delayed by more than, say, 30 minutes.

On a related subject, I wonder if anyone has stopped to think what a strategic vulnerability the crossing must represent, to our national infrastructure? We should get on and build a second crossing right away.

 

 

that would be every car then....., I am pleased that on the way home it is a fair bit quicker , and I too cant wait for the new crossing, I calculated that would save me about 30 minutes a day of queueing. the Nimbys that dont want the crossing at Gravesend, and say put it next to the existing one cant see that what is needed is a complete alternative route, the number of times all of the hold ups are due to the adjacent road junctions (particularly J30 for the A13) in both directions, would surprise most people, in my view the Northern hold ups are the traffic at junction 30.

The number of people I see who go through the right hand tunnel, then force their way across 2 lanes (over the solid white lines) to exit at junction 31 for lakeside, is ridiculous, when J 30 exit backs up to this crossover point, these people stop in lane 3 trying to get across, then the right hand tunnel blocks up too and therein lies the crux of the problem, for that exit you are supposed to be in the left hand tunnel, preferable in lane 1, I know the signs used to say no exit at j31 on the right hand tunnel. 

the number of times I have seen the result of these people cutting across and either having accidents or causing them by forcing others to brake, and of course the result is like this morning - left hand tunnel closed - and chaos.

[Jim]

I was thinking the same Grendel and it might get better once they get rid of all the roadworks around the A13. The other thing I have noticed is the constant "lane hopping" where folk don't simply stay in lane. As soon as they spot adjacent lanes moving quicker that them, they move over which can and does cause accidents. People have to keep sharp braking to avoid hitting them so I imagine this just makes the delays worse.  

[grendel]

I am used to queing for up to 30 minutes heading south, then as soon as I get past junction 30 everything is moving freely, its those who head down the fast lane again trying to cut in at the last minute that cause the problems.

[SwanR]

5 hours ago, kfurbank said:

Add to that the damage to the economy if people couldn't get to Lakeside for their shopping fix!!!

No need to go anywhere near Lakeside or Bluewater soon when John Lewis opens in Chelmsford. Could almost close my Dart Charge account at that point! 

[Jim]

55 minutes ago, grendel said:

I am used to queing for up to 30 minutes heading south, then as soon as I get past junction 30 everything is moving freely, its those who head down the fast lane again trying to cut in at the last minute that cause the problems.

Indeed they do, every time I pass that junction I see them.

[Jim]

7 hours ago, SteveO said:

The recent  "improvements" made  to the Dartford crossing Northbound are, in my view, a complete failure. Charging people to use this blighted route is only rubbing salt in the wounds and I shudder to think how much of a brake on the national economy these delays impose. We should incentivise the " powers that be" to keep the traffic flowing by waiving the "leaving Kent tax"  for any vehicle delayed by more than, say, 30 minutes.

On a related subject, I wonder if anyone has stopped to think what a strategic vulnerability the crossing must represent, to our national infrastructure? We should get on and build a second crossing right away.

 

 

Strategic vulnerability indeed.  I doubt this has been given the consideration it warrants. Trafalgar House built the bridge in 3 years as part of a PFI. The new bridge/tunnel needs to be started now not in 10 years time

[grendel]

I think the planned timescale of the new crossing will probably mean it will open, just after I retire...

[Paul]

Kent is one of the worst routes we get assigned. Even on a "normal" day it's rare to get through the tunnels in less than an hour from the A2, a little better, but not much from the M25. Any planner who schedules us back that way gets a real mouthful. We would normally try and ensure we finish our day as far west as possible and head clockwise, even if it's further. The proposed third crossing near Gravesend is an error IMO. What is needed is a second bridge for northbound traffic on the 282 allowing the tunnel bores to be opened to relieve congestion as and when needed, or even to take traffic from the A225 and A206, which causes mayhem - especially at rush hour as it attempts to join the A282 between the A2 junction and the tunnels.

 

 

[grendel]

4 minutes ago, Paul said:

Kent is one of the worst routes we get assigned. Even on a "normal" day it's rare to get through the tunnels in less than an hour from the A2, a little better, but not much from the M25. Any planner who schedules us back that way gets a real mouthful. We would normally try and ensure we finish our day as far west as possible and head clockwise, even if it's further. The proposed third crossing near Gravesend is an error IMO. What is needed is a second bridge for northbound traffic on the 282 allowing the tunnel bores to be opened to relieve congestion as and when needed, or even to take traffic from the A225 and A206, which causes mayhem - especially at rush hour as it attempts to join the A282 between the A2 junction and the tunnels.

 

 

Yes but the real bottleneck is those junctions either side of the tunnel, adding more lanes across the river at that point wont increase the traffic, the bridge handles southbound traffic really well. the new crossing would filter all the traffic to and from kent off the M25 at the tunnel. I am lucky in that my journeys are in the easy directions at the times I travel, there are always queues in the other direction once I get through.