Boaters Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 New plans for tolls ,are you in the 44% that could be better off ??? http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/shake_up_in_broads_boat_tolls_system_could_be_most_significant_change_since_1981_1_4742310 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 The full nav paper is here: http://www.broads-authority.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0011/805709/Tolls-Review-2016-and-Proposed-Navigation-Charges-for-2016-17.pdf Plan is to move to a toll based upon square meters........ by my rough calculations Thunders toll will increase by about £90 although I assumed a rectangular boat and ignored the pointy bit at the front Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kfurbank Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 More info can be found here http://www.broads-authority.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0011/805709/Tolls-Review-2016-and-Proposed-Navigation-Charges-for-2016-17.pdf For a 35ft private boat that is an eye watering increase of over 16% or 22.5% if taking in to account last years increase as well. For a 35ft private boat the increase is £68.28 against an increase of £29.05 for a hire boat!!!!!! More than double. Against the backdrop of less moorings, rubbish facilities etc. it is becoming unacceptable. You will note in the paper above that the BA have allowed for an increase of 1% in salary costs which is about the average, so how can they justify a 16% increase in tolls? For private boats larger than 35ft, it will be progressively more expensive. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadScot Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 What else do you expect from a "Town Planner !" Iain 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JennyMorgan Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 Just remember that roughly half of our tolls goes towards Authority overheads. There has been major expenditure on Breydon Water, for example, that will be used to justify any increase, great or small. The National Parks grant is under some pressure and rather than cut back, as intended by government, Packman seems intent on making up the shortfall by upping the toll. We are all bleating for more moorings, music to Packman's ears, by loosing moorings he has played his hand, he needs to regain those lost moorings. Oh goody, I'll have to up the toll to pay for these 'new' ones, even more goody is that half that increase will go to covering his pension pot and his above grade, over the odds salary! Oh glee!! A game is being played, we are the pawns and the mugs that will have to pay for it. The tolls are paying an increasingly large proportion of the Authority's income, regretfully we don't have proportional representation, and of any increase about 50%, maybe more, will be hived off for those 'overheads'. Manipulation and personal ambition has always been the game at Yare House, perhaps people will increasingly realise what is going on. When it comes to cuts in overheads, e.g. staff numbers, that old saying; ' a turkey doesn't vote for Christmas' springs to mind. What incentive does a public service CEO have to reduce staff numbers? 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JennyMorgan Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 If 40% are better off then 60% will be worse off. Of that 40% I wonder what percentage are hire boats. I am quite certain that the underlying intention behind this tolls rethink is nothing other than how to rake in more money in order to maintain income against the NP grant reduction. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baitrunner Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 Am i missing something because I already pay based on sq m of boat based on LOA and beam? i havent read the full white paper yet but unless they are going to change the scale then we are already being charged by area? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MauriceMynah Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 That's what I thought too Mark! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kfurbank Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 Mark, You are sort of right. There was a starting point of £94.28 for motor craft of 5 metres squared and under and then an additional charge per metre squared of £9.05. The starting point was more expensive than 5 x £9.05. They have made it more linear from a starting point of zero. They have done the same for hire craft and removed the multiplier. However in doing so they are making it cheaper to a point for smaller craft and then progressively more expensive for larger craft. In addition the increases are larger for private craft than hire craft. So it would appear the private owners of larger craft are to subsidise the smaller boat owners AND the hire companies. That is just taking the p155. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baitrunner Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 Got it now. So private powered craft which provide the bulk of their revenue now will probably get hit as "we can afford it". It basically says that. Looks like the scale is being changed but still based on sq m of boat The survey never came to me or anyone I know either? And yes I would have answered I will have the same number of boats anyway. The challenge is will they still be on the Broads? The numbers are getting closer every year. i think they are missing the point that a big increase for the larger boats may just tip them over the edge. I can safely predict they will see fewer boats being tolled over the coming years. Sure it might happen anyway, but this will probably not help matters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadScot Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 3 minutes ago, Baitrunner said: I can safely predict they will see fewer boats being tolled over the coming years. That Mark, is exactly what the Dr wishes. A N.P. with birds and bees and nowt else ! Iain 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kfurbank Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 The matter has yet to be fully decided, however I will state here and now, if that increase comes in, then I'm taking a rest from the Broads for a year. The boat will be lifted for a year and the BA can spin for my toll. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Labrador Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 59 minutes ago, kfurbank said: The matter has yet to be fully decided, however I will state here and now, if that increase comes in, then I'm taking a rest from the Broads for a year. The boat will be lifted for a year and the BA can spin for my toll. Oh Dear, does this mean the banks may be covered in boats as well as rubbish! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheQ Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 If you're on the bank, you're still liable for the toll. you are supposed to move the boat out of the broads area to be toll free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teadaemon Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 13 minutes ago, TheQ said: If you're on the bank, you're still liable for the toll. you are supposed to move the boat out of the broads area to be toll free. No you're not. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JennyMorgan Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 Square meters of what though? Width times length? Width times length times depth? Depth pf a Caribbean versus a Broom Continental? Do you get my point? Two boats of the same length and breadth could have considerable variations in square meterage. A three decker versus a single decker, but of similar length paying different tolls? Confusing but maybe intentional, we can only guess. Perhaps the Authority sees coastal boats as a cash cow? Having been on a tolls review consultation I do have some sympathy with the BA on this one but I'm darn certain that this particular review, however you tart it up, is about increasing revenue against the decreasing NP grant and has very little to do with fairness, that suggestion is just a sprat to catch a mackerel, imho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JennyMorgan Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 15 minutes ago, TheQ said: If you're on the bank, you're still liable for the toll. you are supposed to move the boat out of the broads area to be toll free. I hope not, I've got several boats on the bank! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MauriceMynah Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 W x L x H would give CUBIC meterage not square meterage so no Peter, it's not that complicated..., and you knew that all along.... and you are a very bad man for trying to stir things up with inaccuracies like that !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheQ Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 change of mind Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshman Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 Well spotted MM - I had already spotted what you have said but did not dare say it! Or else he would accuse me of taking sides! You do not think that PW was going to miss any opportunity for a "dig" do you?? I agree no one wants to pay more but for some years there has been a campaign afoot by even some subscribers to this Forum, to suggest that the small boat owners are being charged too much. Ok so as a result I guess this new scheme will redress this to some extent but surely it was obvious long ago that if this was redressed, any shortfall was going to be made up elsewhere?? Did anyone expect them to agree to a reduction in total tolls when new responsibilities like rubbish collection are being forced on them by the by Councils not fulfilling their legal responsibilities? I thought the NP funding was not being cut? But what will dry up, and is, will be European project money - that is a real concern that some funding could well disappear. I very much doubt whether our own Govt will fill in that gap! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baitrunner Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 It's going to be similar to when they changed the criteria on council tax. in the end most of us will lose out and their revenues will always go up despite less boats to toll. I guess we have to see whether it's significant or just a few pounds. the wife told me to lose a few pounds but I don't think she meant like this!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MauriceMynah Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 It is inevitable that any "restructuring" will lead to winners and losers, but such restructuring is long overdue. I've lost count on how many times I've heard how unfair the existing toll system is to dinghy owners who pay well over the odds compared with a cruiser, I hope that this is addressed. Maybe I'm thick (don't answer that) but I haven't found the definitive figure as to who will pay what, so I'm not surer how those who have said "it's going to cost me x amount more" have calculated this, nor do I know if I win or lose! One thing that always irritates me is this love affair the authorities have with electric boats/cars. They are NOT green. They are NOT good for the planet and they do NOT improve the situation re climate change. Schoolboy physics proves that! They should be tariffed at a higher rate, not a lower one. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kfurbank Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 MM The links provided by Matt and myself give you the document which includes a table with the list of changes. It neatly gives you the increase or decrease in monetary rather than percentage terms because it sounds less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 Looking at the table I think I'm a loser £56 not happy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kfurbank Posted October 20, 2016 Share Posted October 20, 2016 Bet that's somewhere in the region of 14% more than last year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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