Viking23 Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 Not sure if it has been covered before , but I found this EDP report that makes interesting reading. http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/environment/emerging_masterplan_for_the_broads_will_focus_on_protecting_the_waterways_special_qualities_after_brexit_1_4767504 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JennyMorgan Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 What no one mentioned in the above report is the potential to break away from the more inane of the European directives. Due to EU meddling with the way things are traditionally done on the Broads, side swipe dredging and the depositing of spoil on the bank for example, river maintenance costs have risen rather more than substantially. Hopefully a break from those blessed directives will mean that the Authority will have the potential to save a literal fortune. The BA executive takes a lot of flack but its works team does stirling work, well deserving of praise, both the BA and the EA have been hampered by the EU and we have had to pick up a substantial tab. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppy Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 30 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said: What no one mentioned in the above report is the potential to break away from the more inane of the European directives. Due to EU meddling with the way things are traditionally done on the Broads, side swipe dredging and the depositing of spoil on the bank for example, river maintenance costs have risen rather more than substantially. Hopefully a break from those blessed directives will mean that the Authority will have the potential to save a literal fortune. The BA executive takes a lot of flack but its works team does stirling work, well deserving of praise, both the BA and the EA have been hampered by the EU and we have had to pick up a substantial tab. Funny you should raise that JM. Whenever I've seen dyke and river clearance in N. France, Flanders, The Netherlands and Flemish Belgium the spoil goes on the banks - just as it always has done . I believe this claim to be another 'Euromyth' , like 'straight bananas'. Perhaps you can point us in the direction of the appropriate EU directive?? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPEEDTRIPLE Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 Just now, Poppy said: Funny you should raise that JM. Whenever I've seen dyke and river clearance in N. France, Flanders, The Netherlands and Flemish Belgium the spoil goes on the banks - just as it always has done . I believe this claim to be another 'Euromyth' , like 'straight bananas'. Perhaps you can point us in the direction of the appropriate EU directive?? Don`t forget Poppy, History proves, no matter what EU directives say, the French will totally ignore them and do what they like. The only problem is, the French then insist on the UK obeying ALL EU directives to the letter. As JM says, hopefully, Brexit will result in authotities being able to do what is "right for that environment", and NOT what is "as required by directive", and directives that have been decided on by beaurotwatts in other countries, who no absolutely NOTHING about the Broads, and what is important to them, and the people that work and look after them. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MauriceMynah Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 Poorly written humbug! “The Broads is an important landscape, it’s a farmed landscape and therefore anything that happens in terms of payments to farms - because obviously they do have payments from Europe - we don’t know what’s going to happen with that in the future,” she said. (Andrea Long) She might have said it, but what the hell did she mean by it?... Or by this... “Everybody can be involved and have their say. The message that we would say is that if you’ve got any views and you’re not sure, we want to hear them.” Did anyone involved with this article ever go to school? The piece goes on... ... "The masterplan hopes to see the development of so-called ‘climate smart’ communities. It warns that over the next 50 years, global warming is likely to see “hotter, drier summers, slightly wetter and warmer winters” in the Broads, as well as increased water levels, possible heatwaves and drought and “more extremes in the intensity and frequency of rainfall and storms”. Yes, I've long understood that hotter drier weather with possible heatwaves and droughts inevitably leads to higher water levels. On Speedtriple's point, one of our biggest problems has been the cherry picking of EU directives and UK legislation to suit the purposes of the relevant party. When we leave the EU, that will no longer be possible. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppy Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 42 minutes ago, SPEEDTRIPLE said: Don`t forget Poppy, History proves, no matter what EU directives say, the French will totally ignore them and do what they like. The only problem is, the French then insist on the UK obeying ALL EU directives to the letter. As JM says, hopefully, Brexit will result in authotities being able to do what is "right for that environment", and NOT what is "as required by directive", and directives that have been decided on by beaurotwatts in other countries, who no absolutely NOTHING about the Broads, and what is important to them, and the people that work and look after them. That's why I added Netherlands, and Flemish Belgium. I was being a little naughty, knowing JM's views on the EU and Brexit. "the EU has not dealt specifically with dredged material regulations, nor does it currently intend to do so" http://www.european-dredging.eu/pdf/05-0271_Dredged_Mat_and_Env_reg_EU.pdf And this https://www.gov.uk/guidance/waste-exemptions-disposing-of-waste "This exemption allows you to deposit dredging spoil (dredgings) on the banks of the waters it was dredged from and to treat it by screening and removing water. " So what ever the Mail, The Express or The Broads Authority - Espeecially them! - It's NOTHING that The EU have done! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JennyMorgan Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 Let's look at it another way, the BA has a history of interpreting and manipulating UK & EU laws, byelaws and directives to suit its own ends, that is gin clear. Quite simply it begs the question, why? The raised banks of the Broads are a distinctive feature of our rivers, should we assume that the upper echelons don't like the look of mud? I'm not a legal person, perhaps Poppy isn't either, but I think that we need to be certain of the facts in regard to the UK Gov guidance. Going back in time to the hoo-ha over winter access to Horsey Mere and the threats of huge fines under EU laws by the BA, well, that proved to be a hollow threat. However, the idea that vast swards of dosh have been wasted when disposing of dredged mud, spoil, sometimes some distance away, just on the whim of one individual, demands further investigation. In that respect I wish that I had the tenacity and ability of Paladine. If it wasn't necessary to transport spoil, sometimes several miles, then why do it? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppy Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 7 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said: Let's look at it another way, the BA has a history of interpreting and manipulating UK & EU laws, byelaws and directives to suit its own ends, that is gin clear. Quite simply it begs the question, why? The raised banks of the Broads are a distinctive feature of our rivers, should we assume that the upper echelons don't like the look of mud? I'm not a legal person, perhaps Poppy isn't either, but I think that we need to be certain of the facts in regard to the UK Gov guidance. Going back in time to the hoo-ha over winter access to Horsey Mere and the threats of huge fines under EU laws by the BA, well, that proved to be a hollow threat. However, the idea that vast swards of dosh have been wasted when disposing of dredged mud, spoil, sometimes some distance away, just on the whim of one individual, demands further investigation. In that respect I wish that I had the tenacity and ability of Paladine. Indeed - and they would appear to be in breach of OUR Government regulations , to whit :- "Key conditions The waste must be deposited as close as possible to where it was dredged from. The waste must be deposited either: on the bank of the waters from where it was dredged or on land next to the water it was dredged from (the dredgings must be removed from the waterway and deposited mechanically in one operation) This means that you can’t deposit onto a bank and then move it further away by the same or another machine." https://www.gov.uk/guidance/waste-exemptions-disposing-of-waste How much were those new 'wherries' ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JennyMorgan Posted November 13, 2016 Share Posted November 13, 2016 Poppy, I will post those comments & references elsewhere, hope that you don't mind. A closed shop affair but on the surface an important point of law has been blatantly ignored at great cost to us toll payers and it needs taking further. I know a few people who might be able to help. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheQ Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 It should be remembered that the government announced a catch-all bill will be introduced as part of brexit to incorporate all EU laws into UK law. only later will any be considered for change. There are too many laws to deside straight away what to keep. So for the moment BA's and EDP's story is a Dead parrot. SO the question is what are the BA trying to push through on their agenda.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MauriceMynah Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 One wonders what happens where one of our laws and one of the EU laws are mutually exclusive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppy Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 20 minutes ago, MauriceMynah said: One wonders what happens where one of our laws and one of the EU laws are mutually exclusive. Such as? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheQ Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 The later law overrules any earlier laws hence although there were laws ( they have been removed) that you could kill a Scotsman found in York overnight or a Welshman in Chester overnight. They had actually been removed by later "thou shalt not kill" laws put in place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MauriceMynah Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 Thanks Q, that makes sense. Sorry Poppy, I should have said "If" not "Where". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JennyMorgan Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 All very interesting, still doesn't excuse or explain the cherry picking of 'helpful to the cause' directives whilst ignoring the unhelpful ones. Like has been said there appears to be widespread and laughable avoidance of EU laws & directives in mainland Europe and the Balearics, in my experience, but here on the Broads they appear to be avidly and gleefully adhered to, at least when it suits the unpublished agenda. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MauriceMynah Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 1 hour ago, JennyMorgan said: at least when it suits the unpublished agenda. Do we know what that agenda is? if so, it hardly needs publishing but if we don't know, how do we know it hasn't been published? 1 hour ago, JennyMorgan said: All very interesting, still doesn't excuse or explain the cherry picking of 'helpful to the cause' directives whilst ignoring the unhelpful ones. We all cherry pick, it's human nature. We tend "not to hear" that which we have no wish to hear, concentrating our efforts and attentions on those things that help our cause. Peter, You do it, I do it (Oh and OK then,,,, educated fleas do it ) I think I can honestly say I've not to my knowledge come across anybody who doesn't. I know I always seem to be crossing swords with you on the "Packman debate" Peter, I think it's because even though I agree with much of what you say, I'm not sure I agree with the frequency you say it.... and anyway, I miss Strow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JennyMorgan Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 You don't have to take his place though. Yes, in a funny sort of way I also miss him and his argumentative ways! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JennyMorgan Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 53 minutes ago, MauriceMynah said: Do we know what that agenda is? if so, it hardly needs publishing but if we don't know, how do we know it hasn't been published? I wish that we did, then we'd know what to expect or what to object to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MauriceMynah Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 1 hour ago, JennyMorgan said: but if we don't know, how do we know it hasn't been published? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisB Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 I would not in any way say I have knowledge of the various ways of dredging. But, I remember being told that that the reason that the spoil is carted away ( this by a May Gurney employee at Rockland circa 2003) was that the practice of putting it on the bank caused much greater suspended solids in the water which was to the detriment of all marine life in the immediate vacinity of the dredging. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Labrador Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 Don't forget that a lot of these EU laws and directives originated in the UK. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisB Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 1 hour ago, Labrador said: Don't forget that a lot of these EU laws and directives originated in the UK. As did the European Convention on Human Rights. Brought in after Nuremberg. This was very much championed by Churchill who also said (whilst lamenting loss of Empire) " We must now create a USE an United States of Europe" I hope that this has not crossed any Ts&Cs. it is historical fact, feel free to delete if it has. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveO Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 What none of you seem to realise is that the Broads is likely to be ceded to The Netherlands as part of the reparations due in light of our wanting to invoke Article 50. It is thought that this will compensate the EU for having to replace all their flags and logos with new ones with one star less on them. Steve 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JennyMorgan Posted November 14, 2016 Share Posted November 14, 2016 30 minutes ago, SteveO said: What none of you seem to realise is that the Broads is likely to be ceded to The Netherlands as part of the reparations due in light of our wanting to invoke Article 50. It is thought that this will compensate the EU for having to replace all their flags and logos with new ones with one star less on them. Steve I'm quite certain that the Dutch would make a darn good job of managing the Broads. Things could only get better! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poppy Posted November 15, 2016 Share Posted November 15, 2016 12 hours ago, JennyMorgan said: I'm quite certain that the Dutch would make a darn good job of managing the Broads. Things could only get better! I'd like it if they took over coastal defence too ! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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