Dead Boats?

[JennyMorgan]

There can be no doubt about it, some boats are well past their prime. The over engineering of the 1970's means that there are some exceptionally durable hulls out there and some are now being stripped out and then refinished. On the other hand more than a few are plodding on as budget hire boats, despite the tired interiors and shabby external finishes. What happens when a boat becomes uneconomical or too unattractive for rebuilding? A walk around any boating centre along our coast will unearth once good sailing boats, still with stacks of life in them, up for sale at remarkably low prices. Boats that many people can afford to buy but probably wouldn't be able to rejuvenate or afford to moor and certainly won't be able to pay for scrapping. People who can afford the overheads want newer, smarter boats with all the trappings of home. Maybe not now but over the next ten years I suspect that we shall see many old boats heading for the knacker's yard. I wonder who will pick the tab up? Is there a scrap value for an end of life GRP boat? The Broads already has the problem of abandoned ex live-a-boards and other end of life boats, it's not going to go away. Perhaps we could emulate our forbears?

[NorfolkNog]

Very interesting Peter, definitely food for thought. I fear you are right with the old boats. Such a shame.

Wasn't there an old boat 'graveyard' behind the sheds at Martham? And how would you actually scrap a GRP boat? Cut up and go to land fill maybe?

[Baitrunner]

Shred it and landfill. Or burn it and create a mess and noxious fumes. 

The reuse option is a great idea just getting them to where you want them might be prohibitive though. Cranes and low loaders aren't cheap!!

[JennyMorgan]

Just now, NorfolkNog said:

Very interesting Peter, definitely food for thought. I fear you are right with the old boats. Such a shame.

Wasn't there an old boat 'graveyard' behind the sheds at Martham? And how would you actually scrap a GRP boat? Cut up and go to land fill maybe?

Re Martham, down Cess Road, there certainly was when I was last down there, quite a few old wood boats became rebuilds.

Re scrapping grp, I believe that some old grp boats are now being ground up but that costs.

The BA does allocate toll money towards old boat disposal but why should other folk pay rather than the owners? If I remember the average cost of recovering a hull, taking it to the BA's workshop at Thorpe, cutting it up and then disposing of the residue to landfill is about £5,000.00, a lot to ask of an owner who has no money.

Once again I can only see it as a growing problem.

Not so long ago I took an old pedello down to our local council recycling waste centre where they refused to take it. I ended up cutting it up into small enough bits to go into wheely bins and over several months, with the cooperation of my neighbours, disposed of it that way. I know of no formal way of disposing of old grp boats in the Broads area, despite it being a boating area.

[JennyMorgan]

Seems that it a far greater problem than I realised. Some interesting reading here:

https://www.tradeonlytoday.com/features/dealers/marinas-boatyards/the-dead-boat-disposal-crunch/

[Viking23]

I think in years to come that scrap grp will be a valuable resource. We just haven't found a way to deal with it.

I recall scrap tyres, they were dumped everywhere, then a major playground equipment manufacturer found that shreading tyres and adding a form of resin created a soft sponge like tarmac that you see around play equipment all over the country, and maybe the world.

However, not all tyres could be used due to their composition.

It maybe that grp scrap might be the same, if that is the case, then stockpiling it in a hole in the ground could be the way forward. I know what you are thinking... this is land fill, but if you only take GRP then it could all  be recovered later.

Or fill the old mine shafts or limestone caverns with it.

Just a thought before bed time lol...

[JennyMorgan]

The strange things that some people think about before going to bed!

[ChrisB]

In Japan ground GRP is addd to road surfacing to produce, they say, a quieter less spray type of tarmac.

[MauriceMynah]

One thing that might reduce the amount of GRP that needs to be dealt with could be to repair and re-use the hulls and just scrap the superstructure. Hull design doesn't change that much it's the topsides that carry the fashions. Just a thought!

[Timbo]

I discovered these guys a couple of years ago. Abandoned fibreglass and traditional wooden boat construction methods and now use a wood/resin with Kevlar caulking technique. http://www.cuttsandcase.com/cutts-patented-method.html

 

[TheQ]

I remember reading of upturned wherries being used as housing  by the river near Norwich. due to the post WW2 housing shortage some of these wherries lasting till the 1960s.

Maybe thats a way of getting rid of the housing shortage today

[ChrisB]

42 minutes ago, MauriceMynah said:

One thing that might reduce the amount of GRP that needs to be dealt with could be to repair and re-use the hulls and just scrap the superstructure. Hull design doesn't change that much it's the topsides that carry the fashions. Just a thought!

I have been trying to find the boat builder in Ireland I believe who does just that. I saw an Elizabethan 23 that he did with a beautiful cold moulded superstructure in Classic Boat but I have given my mags away. 

Google is letting me down but if I do find them I will post a link

[ChrisB]

I had intended to say that composite boats were very common in the late 60s. 

In Sandinavia there were yachts built with wooden hulls and aluminium superstructures of biscuit tin lid construction. Most are still in very good condition as fresh water could not get in from above. In the UK grp hulls and wooden superstructures  were used on 10ft dinghys up to 100ft TSDYs. 

[MauriceMynah]

20 minutes ago, ChrisB said:

In the UK grp hulls and wooden superstructures  were used on 10ft dinghys up to 100ft TSDYs. 

And most of the Ernest Collins hire fleet

[JennyMorgan]

Back in the 70's & 80's there was an absolute boom of small boat building aimed at the masses, Shetland Boats for example. Boating has since gone somewhat upmarket in the quest for profit. People who can only afford an old and small boat won't be able to afford the moorings thus there are lots of very green small & old boats laying about, boats that are still sound and could have a life. Thankfully in places like Beccles there is a council owned small boat dyke, just that we need a few more. If I was to win the lottery, unlikely as I don't buy any tickets, I would built a few more such dykes.. 

[JennyMorgan]

Just now, MauriceMynah said:

And most of the Ernest Collins hire fleet

And very smart they are and good examples are very much in demand. 

[MauriceMynah]

This reminds me of a question I asked a while back but don't think I received an answer. If I take a hull and put new superstructure on it, can it have the same Reg number?

[JennyMorgan]

If it hasn't been allocated to another boat then I'm sure those nice people in the tolls office will help if they possibly can, as they usually do. 

[MauriceMynah]

The reason for my question Peter was about "grandfather rights". If I were to buy say Brinks Emperor at 48 feet, and replace the superstructure, would I retain those rights? Then if I were to keep this new superstructure and replace the hull, could I still keep those rights? All a bit Walter Mittyish, but I wondered. 

[TheQ]

I had a boat that was away from the broads for about ten years, they reissued the old number when it came back.

All the BA are worried about is the money from your square block on the water, above that they don't give a (water retaining wall).

In fact I don't think there is a requirement to tell them of any changes except engine type, your square blockage on the water, or a conversion from sail to engine.

[ChrisB]

After a couple of phone calls the company I was looking for is Alchemy Marine.

www.alchemy-marine.com

Here is the old and worn Elizabethan 23 that I mentioned and what they did to her.

37d14f_09b2a084200c475da554bda866c39c5b.webp

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37d14f_7e1975416b264e39a838b6b04ef94050.webp

37d14f_56c63d70162d46eea48ec7ff19d78cd1.webp

37d14f_1b5dd9d48e1e495d9f3c75b5f416bf4e.webp

37d14f_88c07942315145c4901155d997aa99f0.webp

37d14f_55eaa74ca5b140438fd1c8e5f550e03f.webp

37d14f_c27456a1dd664cad8499b7229ae7ada6.webp

37d14f_0b53004070fa46ea9fde72434cb60b96.webp

37d14f_e3cfe3c5095e4398ae4597c5f7809d34.webp

37d14f_914bdac558434156a9f531b74fda2a03.webp

[ChrisB]

Sorry about that that...complete failure I hope this works.

http://www.alchemy-marine.com/

If you go to previous projects you can see what they did to Kioni. It is also her on the home page.

 

[Viking23]

11 minutes ago, ChrisB said:

Sorry about that that...complete failure I hope this works.

 

http://www.alchemy-marine.com/previous-projects?lightbox=dataItem-ilr59umz

Hi Chris, very interesting, I was looking at the current project on their site, wow, I thought craftsmanship on boats had been replaced by resin and glass matting, very refreshing to see what appears to be a brand new boat with great carpentry and attention to detail. 

When they say they can do the work at a fraction of the cost a new boat, bear in mind that 7/16 and 15/16 are both fractions, as well as  23/16 too lol 

 

 

 

 

[JennyMorgan]

Amazing what can be achieved with modern resins and techniques, all power to Alchemy's elbow, I like what they do.

[JennyMorgan]

1 hour ago, MauriceMynah said:

The reason for my question Peter was about "grandfather rights". If I were to buy say Brinks Emperor at 48 feet, and replace the superstructure, would I retain those rights? Then if I were to keep this new superstructure and replace the hull, could I still keep those rights? All a bit Walter Mittyish, but I wondered. 

I rather suspect that in real terms there are few 100 year old boats on the Broads. I have a thousand year old axe, as the saying goes, it's had a 100 new handles and 10 new heads!