JennyMorgan Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 There can be no doubt about it, some boats are well past their prime. The over engineering of the 1970's means that there are some exceptionally durable hulls out there and some are now being stripped out and then refinished. On the other hand more than a few are plodding on as budget hire boats, despite the tired interiors and shabby external finishes. What happens when a boat becomes uneconomical or too unattractive for rebuilding? A walk around any boating centre along our coast will unearth once good sailing boats, still with stacks of life in them, up for sale at remarkably low prices. Boats that many people can afford to buy but probably wouldn't be able to rejuvenate or afford to moor and certainly won't be able to pay for scrapping. People who can afford the overheads want newer, smarter boats with all the trappings of home. Maybe not now but over the next ten years I suspect that we shall see many old boats heading for the knacker's yard. I wonder who will pick the tab up? Is there a scrap value for an end of life GRP boat? The Broads already has the problem of abandoned ex live-a-boards and other end of life boats, it's not going to go away. Perhaps we could emulate our forbears? 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorfolkNog Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 Very interesting Peter, definitely food for thought. I fear you are right with the old boats. Such a shame. Wasn't there an old boat 'graveyard' behind the sheds at Martham? And how would you actually scrap a GRP boat? Cut up and go to land fill maybe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baitrunner Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 Shred it and landfill. Or burn it and create a mess and noxious fumes. The reuse option is a great idea just getting them to where you want them might be prohibitive though. Cranes and low loaders aren't cheap!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JennyMorgan Posted February 9, 2017 Author Share Posted February 9, 2017 Just now, NorfolkNog said: Very interesting Peter, definitely food for thought. I fear you are right with the old boats. Such a shame. Wasn't there an old boat 'graveyard' behind the sheds at Martham? And how would you actually scrap a GRP boat? Cut up and go to land fill maybe? Re Martham, down Cess Road, there certainly was when I was last down there, quite a few old wood boats became rebuilds. Re scrapping grp, I believe that some old grp boats are now being ground up but that costs. The BA does allocate toll money towards old boat disposal but why should other folk pay rather than the owners? If I remember the average cost of recovering a hull, taking it to the BA's workshop at Thorpe, cutting it up and then disposing of the residue to landfill is about £5,000.00, a lot to ask of an owner who has no money. Once again I can only see it as a growing problem. Not so long ago I took an old pedello down to our local council recycling waste centre where they refused to take it. I ended up cutting it up into small enough bits to go into wheely bins and over several months, with the cooperation of my neighbours, disposed of it that way. I know of no formal way of disposing of old grp boats in the Broads area, despite it being a boating area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JennyMorgan Posted February 9, 2017 Author Share Posted February 9, 2017 Seems that it a far greater problem than I realised. Some interesting reading here: https://www.tradeonlytoday.com/features/dealers/marinas-boatyards/the-dead-boat-disposal-crunch/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viking23 Posted February 9, 2017 Share Posted February 9, 2017 I think in years to come that scrap grp will be a valuable resource. We just haven't found a way to deal with it. I recall scrap tyres, they were dumped everywhere, then a major playground equipment manufacturer found that shreading tyres and adding a form of resin created a soft sponge like tarmac that you see around play equipment all over the country, and maybe the world. However, not all tyres could be used due to their composition. It maybe that grp scrap might be the same, if that is the case, then stockpiling it in a hole in the ground could be the way forward. I know what you are thinking... this is land fill, but if you only take GRP then it could all be recovered later. Or fill the old mine shafts or limestone caverns with it. Just a thought before bed time lol... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JennyMorgan Posted February 9, 2017 Author Share Posted February 9, 2017 The strange things that some people think about before going to bed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisB Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 In Japan ground GRP is addd to road surfacing to produce, they say, a quieter less spray type of tarmac. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MauriceMynah Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 One thing that might reduce the amount of GRP that needs to be dealt with could be to repair and re-use the hulls and just scrap the superstructure. Hull design doesn't change that much it's the topsides that carry the fashions. Just a thought! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timbo Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 I discovered these guys a couple of years ago. Abandoned fibreglass and traditional wooden boat construction methods and now use a wood/resin with Kevlar caulking technique. http://www.cuttsandcase.com/cutts-patented-method.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheQ Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 I remember reading of upturned wherries being used as housing by the river near Norwich. due to the post WW2 housing shortage some of these wherries lasting till the 1960s. Maybe thats a way of getting rid of the housing shortage today 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisB Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 42 minutes ago, MauriceMynah said: One thing that might reduce the amount of GRP that needs to be dealt with could be to repair and re-use the hulls and just scrap the superstructure. Hull design doesn't change that much it's the topsides that carry the fashions. Just a thought! I have been trying to find the boat builder in Ireland I believe who does just that. I saw an Elizabethan 23 that he did with a beautiful cold moulded superstructure in Classic Boat but I have given my mags away. Google is letting me down but if I do find them I will post a link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisB Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 I had intended to say that composite boats were very common in the late 60s. In Sandinavia there were yachts built with wooden hulls and aluminium superstructures of biscuit tin lid construction. Most are still in very good condition as fresh water could not get in from above. In the UK grp hulls and wooden superstructures were used on 10ft dinghys up to 100ft TSDYs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MauriceMynah Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 20 minutes ago, ChrisB said: In the UK grp hulls and wooden superstructures were used on 10ft dinghys up to 100ft TSDYs. And most of the Ernest Collins hire fleet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JennyMorgan Posted February 10, 2017 Author Share Posted February 10, 2017 Back in the 70's & 80's there was an absolute boom of small boat building aimed at the masses, Shetland Boats for example. Boating has since gone somewhat upmarket in the quest for profit. People who can only afford an old and small boat won't be able to afford the moorings thus there are lots of very green small & old boats laying about, boats that are still sound and could have a life. Thankfully in places like Beccles there is a council owned small boat dyke, just that we need a few more. If I was to win the lottery, unlikely as I don't buy any tickets, I would built a few more such dykes.. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JennyMorgan Posted February 10, 2017 Author Share Posted February 10, 2017 Just now, MauriceMynah said: And most of the Ernest Collins hire fleet And very smart they are and good examples are very much in demand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MauriceMynah Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 This reminds me of a question I asked a while back but don't think I received an answer. If I take a hull and put new superstructure on it, can it have the same Reg number? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JennyMorgan Posted February 10, 2017 Author Share Posted February 10, 2017 If it hasn't been allocated to another boat then I'm sure those nice people in the tolls office will help if they possibly can, as they usually do. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MauriceMynah Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 The reason for my question Peter was about "grandfather rights". If I were to buy say Brinks Emperor at 48 feet, and replace the superstructure, would I retain those rights? Then if I were to keep this new superstructure and replace the hull, could I still keep those rights? All a bit Walter Mittyish, but I wondered. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheQ Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 I had a boat that was away from the broads for about ten years, they reissued the old number when it came back. All the BA are worried about is the money from your square block on the water, above that they don't give a (water retaining wall). In fact I don't think there is a requirement to tell them of any changes except engine type, your square blockage on the water, or a conversion from sail to engine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisB Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 After a couple of phone calls the company I was looking for is Alchemy Marine. www.alchemy-marine.com Here is the old and worn Elizabethan 23 that I mentioned and what they did to her. 37d14f_09b2a084200c475da554bda866c39c5b.webp 37d14f_9b3234075d774f6298042bb6b6c73144.webp 37d14f_7e1975416b264e39a838b6b04ef94050.webp 37d14f_56c63d70162d46eea48ec7ff19d78cd1.webp 37d14f_1b5dd9d48e1e495d9f3c75b5f416bf4e.webp 37d14f_88c07942315145c4901155d997aa99f0.webp 37d14f_55eaa74ca5b140438fd1c8e5f550e03f.webp 37d14f_c27456a1dd664cad8499b7229ae7ada6.webp 37d14f_0b53004070fa46ea9fde72434cb60b96.webp 37d14f_e3cfe3c5095e4398ae4597c5f7809d34.webp 37d14f_914bdac558434156a9f531b74fda2a03.webp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisB Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 Sorry about that that...complete failure I hope this works. http://www.alchemy-marine.com/ If you go to previous projects you can see what they did to Kioni. It is also her on the home page. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viking23 Posted February 10, 2017 Share Posted February 10, 2017 11 minutes ago, ChrisB said: Sorry about that that...complete failure I hope this works. http://www.alchemy-marine.com/previous-projects?lightbox=dataItem-ilr59umz Hi Chris, very interesting, I was looking at the current project on their site, wow, I thought craftsmanship on boats had been replaced by resin and glass matting, very refreshing to see what appears to be a brand new boat with great carpentry and attention to detail. When they say they can do the work at a fraction of the cost a new boat, bear in mind that 7/16 and 15/16 are both fractions, as well as 23/16 too lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JennyMorgan Posted February 10, 2017 Author Share Posted February 10, 2017 Amazing what can be achieved with modern resins and techniques, all power to Alchemy's elbow, I like what they do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JennyMorgan Posted February 10, 2017 Author Share Posted February 10, 2017 1 hour ago, MauriceMynah said: The reason for my question Peter was about "grandfather rights". If I were to buy say Brinks Emperor at 48 feet, and replace the superstructure, would I retain those rights? Then if I were to keep this new superstructure and replace the hull, could I still keep those rights? All a bit Walter Mittyish, but I wondered. I rather suspect that in real terms there are few 100 year old boats on the Broads. I have a thousand year old axe, as the saying goes, it's had a 100 new handles and 10 new heads! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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