Radio Norfolk And Broads Speeding

[Paladin]

10 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

Surely a simple case of adding or deducting tidal flow from the measured speed of the vessel. Where there is a will then surely there is a way.

I am well aware of how to calculate it. My question was whether there is a piece of equipment that the Broads Authority could purchase, at a reasonable cost, to replace the radar devices currently in use, which would instantly give them the speed of a particular vessel through the water. Unless such a device is readily and economically available, there is no point in changing the bye law to create an unenforceable offence.

[grendel]

surely though at certain states of the tide at yarmouth for example, one could be exceeding the speed limit on the water, but in actual fact be carried backwards towards the bridges - maybe this is where the speed over land comes in, of course at that point your wash may well be more than is comfortable, even if you are barely making headway.

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, Paladin said:

I am well aware of how to calculate it. My question was whether there is a piece of equipment that the Broads Authority could purchase, at a reasonable cost, to replace the radar devices currently in use, which would instantly give them the speed of a particular vessel through the water. Unless such a device is readily and economically available, there is no point in changing the bye law to create an unenforceable offence.

Why is it down to BA ? Yes they have radar guns and they use them , isn't it time that hire boat companies got with the programme and stopped relying on A the hirer , and B a tachometer that's not for the purpose of measuring speed , wash is by far the biggest cause of complaints some boats at the speed limit create more than others breaking the limit , BA should not have to invest in anything more than they already have its high time hire boat companies got more responsible .

[JennyMorgan]

Just now, grendel said:

surely though at certain states of the tide at yarmouth for example, one could be exceeding the speed limit on the water, but in actual fact be carried backwards towards the bridges - maybe this is where the speed over land comes in, of course at that point your wash may well be more than is comfortable, even if you are barely making headway.

Exactly right. The tide factor has always been an issue. At one time I was on a Navigation Committee jolly aboard a river bus, just up river from Berney, when a Ranger came alongside and told the skipper to slow down. The skipper explained that if he did then he would have no steerage. 

Re the BA buying new radar guns, why? All that would be needed would be some form of tide flow meter, surely not beyond the wit of man or woman? Possibly a simple interface to join the two devices? Where there is a will . . . . . . . . . . . . 

[Viking23]

We have only left the Broads now 9 months, and to be honest, I do keep in touch with what is going on, probably more than the previous 6 years lol, but I am not happy on what is being reported...

We have mobile phones, tablets and video cameras capturing and reporting  alleged speeding, with no technical support evidence, we have name and shame of vessels allegedly speeding or emitting noise with no speed or dB noise measurements and distance using calibrated equipment, we have boats being reported for overstaying 24 hour moorings, with or without broken propulsion equipment.

Then to cap this we have people bringing megaphones to the broads to give advice to boaters, because in the opinion of the person behind the megaphone thinks... in his / her opinion, that they are doing things wrong.

The reason I brought this last one up, is that I watched Coronation Street earlier this week and there is Brian, the ex head teacher, on litter duty, and he is standing 6 feet behind people that accidentally dropped litter, but in fact picked it up before it reached the ground, but he had to use the megaphone to tell the alleged litter lout of his offence. Now.... what a pratt he looked, and we run the same vision for any visitors to the Broads. 

If a "Brian" type person did that to me, then ... Well I'd just launch the torpedos or rockets that I just bought from China last month.  lol I can only see this escalating with aggression. 

May I suggest (tongue in very big cheek) that the forum produce some table tennis battons with various mph speeds on them, then we can wave 3mph, 5mph, at every boat that goes past, speeding or not. After all, we don't really know their speed. 

What is the Norfolk Broads becoming? 

You have to bear in mind that people have paid huge amounts of money to hire a boat, having paid tax on their earnings, the real cost for one day and night on the Broads could be between £300 - £500 for each and every night, plus food and drink etc Surely they deserve more?

Richard

 

 

[TheQ]

One of the boat companies interviewed said they had fitted GPS to their boats (I can't remember which).

 

 

In his intro and other times several times Nick Conrad did say those dreaded words" Broads National Park"  

my Email pointing the error of his ways, , (PS thanks to those I borrowed the quotes from)

Start Quote

"You just before 07:15 Stated that the Norfolk Broads is a national Park, I remind you of the following…

From the Broads Authority itself, June 2017,

It is correct that the Broads was not designated as a National Park under the

National Parks and Access to the Countryside Act 1949

 And

"..for the avoidance of any doubt, the broads are not legally a national park and do not come under the national park legislation, and nor will they."
Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for DEFRA (Hansard 2015).

 

There are very good reasons for resistance against Mr Packmans ambitions to turn the Norfolk Broads into a National Park..

end Quote

 

To Which I got the reply...

"Yes of course – fair point.

Thanks,

Nick "

 

 

[TheQ]

As for the bats with the speed limits on them I have seen them in use, as it's very difficult to shout to ask people to slow down past, for instance, the beginners sailing..

 PS I have a megaphone, your voice gets very sore after a week shouting at tourists, over reving engines to ask them to slow down, as they approach the regatta. Trouble  is I keep forgetting to take it with me...

[JennyMorgan]

Richard., many wise words but just because someone has paid mega bucks either for a boat or indeed for a holiday does not excuse them from exhibiting good manners or exercising restraint and respecting the law of the land, or in this case the rivers.

Q, thanks for e-mailing Radio Norfolk as you did, top man!

[JennyMorgan]

The only person I know with a megaphone onboard is Griff on BA. Reportedly he only uses it for the telling of his awful jokes when there is a chance that his targeted audience is nodding off!

[Viking23]

Just now, JennyMorgan said:

Richard., many wise words but just because someone has paid mega bucks either for a boat or indeed for a holiday does not excuse them from exhibiting good manners or exercising restraint and respecting the law of the land, or in this case the rivers.

Q, thanks for e-mailing Radio Norfolk as you did, top man!

I quite agree, but hirers get away with a verbal telling off, and they know it, private craft crew should know better, but there was no mention of private craft exceeding the speed limit, unless I fast forwarded past that clip, we have all seen evidence of private craft exceeding the speed limit too.

Richard 

[Viking23]

Just now, JennyMorgan said:

The only person I know with a megaphone onboard is Griff on BA. Reportedly he only uses it for the telling of his awful jokes when there is a chance that his targeted audience is nodding off!

I can believe that lol...

[Paladin]

16 minutes ago, Ricardo said:

Why is it down to BA ? Yes they have radar guns and they use them , isn't it time that hire boat companies got with the programme and stopped relying on A the hirer , and B a tachometer that's not for the purpose of measuring speed , wash is by far the biggest cause of complaints some boats at the speed limit create more than others breaking the limit , BA should not have to invest in anything more than they already have its high time hire boat companies got more responsible .

Ricardo, you quoted one of my posts in your response. May I point out that it wasn't me who suggested the BA should change the bye law or spend out on new technology.

11 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

Exactly right. The tide factor has always been an issue. At one time I was on a Navigation Committee jolly aboard a river bus, just up river from Berney, when a Ranger came alongside and told the skipper to slow down. The skipper explained that if he did then he would have no steerage. 

Re the BA buying new radar guns, why? All that would be needed would be some form of tide flow meter, surely not beyond the wit of man or woman? Possibly a simple interface to join the two devices? Where there is a will . . . . . . . . . . . . 

Where would this tide flow meter be placed? Upstream or downstream of the ranger's position? Or both? How would it be linked to the radar gun to give an instant readout. I get the impression that there is no technology readily available to enable the change to speed-through-the-water measurement for the purposes of the bye law, so I think speed-over-ground will be with us for quite a while yet

[JennyMorgan]

I am not sure that such equipment is not already out there. For example I have a good friend who has a way outside my budget 'fish finder', it does everything except make a brew! Water temperature and water flow at a predetermined depth , it's linked to a gps, it indicates the composition of the river bed, even finds fish on a good day. Guess what, it can all be read via his I-Phone, all in amazing technicolour! Okay, not purpose built I grant you, but its an indication that the technology is out there, even if it needs tweaking for purpose. I agree that things won't change with any immediacy but it will come, one day, hopefully! As for flow meters, one upstream and one downstream perhaps? As I have already said, just a question of will. 

[TheQ]

6 minutes ago, Viking23 said:

I quite agree, but hirers get away with a verbal telling off, and they know it, private craft crew should know better, but there was no mention of private craft exceeding the speed limit, unless I fast forwarded past that clip, we have all seen evidence of private craft exceeding the speed limit too.

Richard 

I'd agree with this, tourists are generally limited by the hire boat to a couple of miles an hour over the limit.

It takes a Private owner to be planeing down the river ( I have seen on the Woodcutters Straight up to Dydlers mill)

OR because they have a huge ocean going boat rumbling along on  tick over, are unable to keep below the limit, and when they open the throttle slightly to move forward a little faster they leave a hole in the water...

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Paladin said:

I am well aware of how to calculate it. My question was whether there is a piece of equipment that the Broads Authority could purchase, at a reasonable cost, to replace the radar devices currently in use, which would instantly give them the speed of a particular vessel through the water. Unless such a device is readily and economically available, there is no point in changing the bye law to create an unenforceable offence.

I'm sorry but in this post you clearly state that BA should purchase what ever device to replace the radar guns , and the last sentence refers to changing the bylaw which as I'm sure you know is an extremely expensive thing to do .

BA do t need anything more than they have already got , all that needs to be done is hire craft fitted with GPS that takes all the confusion away from the hirer and puts things on a level playing field just as it is on the roads .

[grendel]

4 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

As I have already said, just a question of will

or maybe a question of wont!

[Paladin]

Just now, Ricardo said:

I'm sorry but in this post you clearly state that BA should purchase what ever device to replace the radar guns...

What I actually said was " My question was whether there is a piece of equipment that the Broads Authority could purchase... "

I was NOT advocating any change or further expense, simply responding to someone who had.

[Guest]

Just now, Paladin said:

What I actually said was " My question was whether there is a piece of equipment that the Broads Authority could purchase... "

I was NOT advocating any change or further expense, simply responding to someone who had.

You can't tell me that's not an expense to BA's budget , be it could or should its still an expense .

Why should they , its high time the hire fleet got its act together .

[Poppy]

Do we really need 'new' kit? The real problem is not speed, but the wash kicked up and its imact on the Broads environment.

We all have at least one 'Mk1 eyeball' which I suggest should be turned rearward at regular intervals to see what impact on the water your passage is making !

Of course, there are those boats, with 'deep v' hulls or other planing designs which will always create excessive wash at or within the speed limits. They do look the part though,apparently......

Hull design is the issue - perhaps a loading on the tolls of those types of boat, comensurate with the damage they are creating

[Baitrunner]

SOG is the only accurate method they can use. Speed through the water is a pointless measure for some of the reasons already mentioned. 

Anyone who has ever had a mechanical speed log will know they are only accurate for about the first week. Before the slime, weed creatures etc start to slow it down. So how could the BA keep these accurate?

next point. Why do the hire yards have to provide gps? I have all the toys and never use them on the river because I actually know where I am. So how do I check my speed? A free speed App for the phone. How many smart phones do you think are on an average hire boat? Or private one for that? People don't think. I had friends on a hire boat with us recently and they had no idea how fast they were going. Until I suggested they use one of the 8 smart phones and 5 iPads onboard. 

Next, wash. Very subjective unless videod and then proven it was caused by excess speed. I think the rangers have an idea as to what types of boats generate a little more wash and can gauge it against speed and tide flow.  And you think it's only hire boats and gin palaces? I would love to share the name of a certain sailie who tanks it along on his outboard with not a sail in sight

Finally, I sincerely hope all sea going boats have to pay triple tolls due to all the damage we do. Codswallop and generalisation again. We will all then move our boats off the Broads and either the national park brigade will win or the rest of you will have to pay 4 times what your paying now. But dont forget our boats never come off our moorings anyway so how can we cause damage?

Rant over

[ScrumpyCheddar]

Now I've read about this on Facebook on another broads site that a certain person is videotaping so called speeders and shouting out at boaters who are not speeding..... i suggest we give a friendly one or two finger salute as we go by at the correct speed... Also if this certain person doesn't like it I suggest they get a proper mooring in a boat yard or marina...

absolute joke.. they need to get a life....

[Hockham Admiral]

Peeps, please let's keep it friendly,  thank you.

[CheshireCat]

On the spot fines , one warning second time £100 fine , third time £1000 fine , forth time £5000 they will all slow down both private and holiday may sound harsh but nothing ells is working ...

[Viking23]

Every boat to have a black box fitted with a GPS device giving position, no let's go with... a blue box, as the BA like to enter things into a blue book, so this can enter it automatically lol. with the speed limits programmed in, so speed limits can never be broken, and a remote engine shut down so no engines running after 8 pm, no cruising after dusk etc

The advantage of GPS positioning for the customer is.... in case of engine breakdown, a call is automatically sent to the hire company, of location etc. 

All mooring locations can be logged and a fee automatically paid to the land owner. Any boating incidents, like collisions etc could place a boat at the scene, may be with video evidence. Any boat passing under a particular bridge without a pilot would have an automatic fine, and crews without 200 cruising hours would not be allowed south of Stokesby.

Boats failing to comply will have their mud weights automatically deployed to ensure the boat is disabled safely.

Seems quite simple to do, we have the technology, add finger print technology to the throttle position to prevent banned crew members or under aged crew, and a breathalyser to prevent engine starts when a skipper is under the influence. 

So far so good, at this rate, the boat will never leave the home mooring, there will be no excessive speeding, no excessive wash, reduced incidents of stranding on Breydon, the reed beds will be saved and everyone will live happily ever after.

 

 

[TheQ]

A plain GPS speedometer is not that expensive, and I'm sure boat companies could get a better deal on bulk...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Universal-Car-GPS-Speedometer-HUD-MPH-KM-h-USB-Plug-Play-Overspeed-Warning-/112150243135?hash=item1a1cace73f:g:syAAAOSwCQZZMOEm