Independence - Updates | Maintenance & Care

[Guest]

20 minutes ago, ChrisB said:

I had sight tubes with the push buttons on my two 28 second kerosene tanks when I lived in The Chilterns. Very easy to forget to push the button thinking all is OK only to remember, the oil flies down the tubes and you find you are nearly empty with the mercury reading -4C and a foot of snow stopping any tanker getting up to you. You soon learn though. Lesson learned the sight tubes are only accurate for a few minutes after you push the button.

Got caught in a similar way on a clients  boat, he assured me there was plenty of fuel until we got that engine noise that says otherwise.

I pressed the button at the bottom of the tube and it went empty. At tick over we made it back to the berth.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, LondonRascal said:

Survey, Research and Knowledge. Yes, these are three words a sensible boat buyer should certainly consider heeding but that is because most people who buy boats are trying to mitigate as many problems (and costs) as they can at the point of purchase. I was not worried about that so it did not matter to me at the time and that is why I did not do that.

I have some issues - they are pretty small ones as they go, and from Monday the process of them being dealt with begins. The key in all of this so far as I am concerned was finding what they were, and getting someone to put them right - both have been accomplished.

If I had taken more time or care into what the BSS was likely to have required me to have had changed, I would not have bothered to have such items addressed prior to leaving Plymouth because they had no bearing on the boat at the time - they only would come into play in Norfolk like the fuel filter bowls for example or the sight gauges having an auto close valve on them, the boat has spent 16 odd years with what it has just fine but now it is on an inland river these things need to be changed. I was more concerned with getting things like a new water pump, heating, spare parts for the engine, new fuel filters and seals and so sorted then which were more pressing.

 

 

I'm glad to see that the likes of water pumps and fuel filters were of a higher priority than fire extinguisher's that were with in basically a check of if they are charged and in date , unless if course you have suffered catastrophic extinguisher failure in the last few weeks .

I wanted to see the fail certificate to be honest as iv not ever seen one during the course of building 9 boats under my own name and 4 boats owned by me and that since BSS came in on the inland waterways .

Ignoring it does 1 or 2 things , either cost you money or worse your life .

[Islander]

Hi Robin, looks like you don't have too many problems to solve. NYA will def see you right. Bought our first boat through them and we didn't have a survey done but she came with a folder full of work sheets and receipts.

I thought you had checked your fire extinguishers, forgot to mention Tims Fire Service background. 

Hope you get out on the river soon( while there is still room to moor at Bramerton).

Colin

[Guest]

Most of that list you already knew about, so not too bad really. NYA are good so you are in safe hands there, and I'm sure they will be keen to get you as a regular customer. We also bought our first boat from them 17 years ago with no survey undertaken. James was a gent and spent a lot of time with us even though we were buying just about the cheapest thing they had in stock. Must admit I have not checked my extinguishers that closely since getting the boat, must do that next visit. The new water mist ones look pretty snazzy, effective on almost all fire types and leave no mess so I might go for those If I need any.

[LondonRascal]

Quote

I'm glad to see that the likes of water pumps and fuel filters were of a higher priority than fire extinguisher's that were with in basically a check of if they are charged and in date , unless if course you have suffered catastrophic extinguisher failure in the last few weeks .

Hmm I feel a bit confused again, as it seems I explain something generally to the Forum reading this thread - almsot as if in passing -  only for you to then assume that something was not as high of a priority - in this case you seem to be saying that a simple visual check of the fire extinguishers onboard would have alerted me to their condition when in Plymouth. But I had already done this.

Over the years of people sharing things here (and elsewhere) it is very unusual to find someone share something and somebody else pull them up on the point they made in quite the way I seem to be pulled up on things.

In the above case the way you have worded your response implies to fellow readers that the water pump and fuel filters etc were deemed a higher priority by me than the basic safety of the boat and crew in the event of a fire. As if I had failed to check things, and it would have been so easy to have done - but I did check you see.   You also seem to imply that there is the possibility that having checked them at the time,  but since then I have suffered a 'catastrophic extinguisher failure' in the last few weeks.

The point I am pondering is, why imply - why word something in such a way when you could have simply asked the question.

However, let me treat it as a question: The fact is the fire extinguishers are actually all OK. They are all fully charged, show no sign of corrosion or other visual signs they may not operate when required, and are in date.  I did not share that in my earlier post as I did not think it was important to have but now, as ever with things I share I have to delve a little deeper and explain a bit more.

Needing to do such is OK because I am learning to keep all the details ready  at hand to answer such points as they come. In this case the reason why the fire extinguishers did not pass the examination is because they are of different sizes causing  their total combined UL rating to fall short of 21A and 144B but only by only by a small amount.

Instead of replacing just one to bring the combined amount up, I am going to replace all of them and include a fourth one (not a requirement) but in the saloon area as this is one of the points with the easiest escape route, aft and out of the port side so being able to have an extinguisher to hand here I think would be a wise idea.

I did not ignore anything and already have an extra extinguisher in a cupboard which brings the total UL rating up to  that which is required (so even when we left Plymouth we had enough so far as the water equivalency rating and the square footage rating went) but since the extinguisher was loose, with no holder and in a cupboard,  I felt it would not comply but it was there should the need arise. It is now at home in the kitchen.

I can't show you the certificate showing the fail - because it is not with me and on the boat. I only shared here the page from the email I was sent which showed the issues I needed to address, and also because being typed and not handwritten it would be easier for all to read and understand the context of such more.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Ricardo said:

I'm glad to see that the likes of water pumps and fuel filters were of a higher priority than fire extinguisher's that were with in basically a check of if they are charged and in date , unless if course you have suffered catastrophic extinguisher failure in the last few weeks .

I wanted to see the fail certificate to be honest as iv not ever seen one during the course of building 9 boats under my own name and 4 boats owned by me and that since BSS came in on the inland waterways .

Ignoring it does 1 or 2 things , either cost you money or worse your life .

Never heard of a failure certificate before.. imagine at school presentation day: " Brian Scroggins failed to make the 25 yard swimming test and everyone claps, next certificate goes to Kevin Ramsbottom who only achieved the first field of the 5 mile mile country run before collapsing with "a Stitch"

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, Philosophical said:

Never heard of a failure certificate before.. imagine at school presentation day: " Brian Scroggins failed to make the 25 yard swimming test and everyone claps, next certificate goes to Kevin Ramsbottom who only achieved the first field of the 5 mile mile country run before collapsing with "a Stitch"

Well here's the thing is basically for inert objects like boats and cars ie BSS and MOT  , doesn't really apply to humans , as it happens iv seen a BSS fail certificate via the records of my current boat before it got into my ownership .

So BSS isn't really Like school as unlike school examination's the answers are already known all you have to do is look , find them , and act upon them , n easy ,,  pass ,, 

[grendel]

but like the MOT, some people can look at what is necessary to pass, and not have a clue what they are looking for. I can for instance with my car, check the brakes for wear, and adjust them, but how would I check the emmissions as i dont have the equipment, sometimes its a case of get the expert in to look, then get the garage to fix it, some of us can do the work ourselves, some cannot. (well they cant at first, but could be taught given time). At the moment Robin doesnt have the time to wait, so is calling in the expert to do the job for him.

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, Ricardo said:

Well here's the thing is basically for inert objects like boats and cars ie BSS and MOT  , doesn't really apply to humans , as it happens iv seen a BSS fail certificate via the records of my current boat before it got into my ownership .

So BSS isn't really Like school as unlike school examination's the answers are already known all you have to do is look , find them , and act upon them , n easy ,,  pass ,, 

I always thought they were called " Failure Notifications" or the like.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Philosophical said:

I always thought they were called " Failure Notifications" or the like.

And the difference is ?????

[Guest]

44 minutes ago, LondonRascal said:

Hmm I feel a bit confused again, as it seems I explain something generally to the Forum reading this thread - almsot as if in passing -  only for you to then assume that something was not as high of a priority - in this case you seem to be saying that a simple visual check of the fire extinguishers onboard would have alerted me to their condition when in Plymouth. But I had already done this.

Over the years of people sharing things here (and elsewhere) it is very unusual to find someone share something and somebody else pull them up on the point they made in quite the way I seem to be pulled up on things.

In the above case the way you have worded your response implies to fellow readers that the water pump and fuel filters etc were deemed a higher priority by me than the basic safety of the boat and crew in the event of a fire. As if I had failed to check things, and it would have been so easy to have done - but I did check you see.   You also seem to imply that there is the possibility that having checked them at the time,  but since then I have suffered a 'catastrophic extinguisher failure' in the last few weeks.

The point I am pondering is, why imply - why word something in such a way when you could have simply asked the question.

However, let me treat it as a question: The fact is the fire extinguishers are actually all OK. They are all fully charged, show no sign of corrosion or other visual signs they may not operate when required, and are in date.  I did not share that in my earlier post as I did not think it was important to have but now, as ever with things I share I have to delve a little deeper and explain a bit more.

Needing to do such is OK because I am learning to keep all the details ready  at hand to answer such points as they come. In this case the reason why the fire extinguishers did not pass the examination is because they are of different sizes causing  their total combined UL rating to fall short of 21A and 144B but only by only by a small amount.

Instead of replacing just one to bring the combined amount up, I am going to replace all of them and include a fourth one (not a requirement) but in the saloon area as this is one of the points with the easiest escape route, aft and out of the port side so being able to have an extinguisher to hand here I think would be a wise idea.

I did not ignore anything and already have an extra extinguisher in a cupboard which brings the total UL rating up to  that which is required (so even when we left Plymouth we had enough so far as the water equivalency rating and the square footage rating went) but since the extinguisher was loose, with no holder and in a cupboard,  I felt it would not comply but it was there should the need arise. It is now at home in the kitchen.

I can't show you the certificate showing the fail - because it is not with me and on the boat. I only shared here the page from the email I was sent which showed the issues I needed to address, and also because being typed and not handwritten it would be easier for all to read and understand the context of such more.

Robin question is this why did you put that you're extinguishers failed due to being not in good condition if the only problem was the fact that they did not meet the required value for a size of vessel. 

The fact that you put not in good condition implies in itself that they were failed or of the incorrect type not what you are now saying that there was an insufficient amount of extinguisher's.

Please dont worry I can read Tim's handwriting its actually pretty good n since he did my last BSS iv on problem with it , but my point still stands , " not in good condition " doesn't imply insufficient amount , it implies broken , uncharged, out of date etc etc etc . 

[Guest]

29 minutes ago, Ricardo said:

Well here's the thing is basically for inert objects like boats and cars ie BSS and MOT  , doesn't really apply to humans , as it happens iv seen a BSS fail certificate via the records of my current boat before it got into my ownership .

So BSS isn't really Like school as unlike school examination's the answers are already known all you have to do is look , find them , and act upon them , n easy ,,  pass ,, 

In my day you were not allowed to take books into an examination room so there was nothing to look at other than the question paper and another blank piece of paper where you were supposed to write your answers

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Philosophical said:

In my day you were not allowed to take books into an examination room so there was nothing to look at other than the question paper and another blank piece of paper where you were supposed to write your answers

Nor in mine either , and that's where research ( revision) came into play along with of cause listening to the wiser one ie the teacher .

This instance is way different the answer is already known as is where to find it , I rest my case 

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, Ricardo said:

Nor in mine either , and that's where research ( revision) came into play along with of cause listening to the wiser one ie the teacher .

This instance is way different the answer is already known as is where to find it , I rest my case 

You have completely lost me

 

[Guest]

39 minutes ago, Ricardo said:

And the difference is ?????

Not called a certificate

[LondonRascal]

Quote

Robin question is this why did you put that you're extinguishers failed due to being not in good condition if the only problem was the fact that they did not meet the required value for a size of vessel. 

The fact that you put not in good condition implies in itself that they were failed or of the incorrect type not what you are now saying that there was an insufficient amount of extinguisher's.

Because that is what the description on the emailed PDF showed  and that I shared here. It was only on the hand written notice that covered the UL rating being insufficient as a reason for failure and what I needed to do to comply. I have enough of them, but one of them is not large enough causing the rating to be insufficient. I am choosing to replace all three and get a fourth for the saloon area.

The question I have to wonder to myself, is why does it matter to question why they may be a failure - does the reason matter  in short?

Indeed, does the resultant explantation and following debate matter? To me, no it does not but it passes the time replying here while I catch up with Big Clive on You Tube.

 

[ExSurveyor]

7 minutes ago, Philosophical said:

You have completely lost me

 

Grasshopper,  why you not listen to Master po. 

 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, psychicsurveyor said:

Grasshopper,  why you not listen to Master po. 

 

Misquoted though " why you no wrisen"

 

[ExSurveyor]

1 minute ago, Philosophical said:

Misquoted though " why you no wrisen"

 

I blame Google Translate

[Meantime]

Why can't people accept that we are all different? When my boat is due the BSS I print out the current BSS regs and then use that to check all the items on the boat and make sure to the best of my novice ability that everything is going to pass. I accept that I'm not an expert and that I may well miss things, especially things like gas pressure check, which I do not touch. When Tim turns up I have all the inspection panels etc. removed and ensure easy access to all the things I know he will want to see. I also update him on any modifications I may have made to the boat since the last BSS test. I then make us both a cup of coffee and pretty much leave him to it. That's just one way, and my way of tackling the test. I'm sure we all have our own way of doing it. Robin has his way and to be honest, it's not the way I would have done it, but then it's his boat and his journey. And that is the main point, it is his boat and his journey, to be completed his way. He is sharing it with us, but shouldn't have to keep on justifying his actions. Robin, please ignore the static hiss in the background and keep on with your journey, and updates.

[ExSurveyor]

When I have a Boat safety due,  and with 3 needing them all in different years. I ask the boatyards to check the boat over,  fix anything that needs doing and get them through.

I would rather spend money than my time,  that way when I am onboard I use the boat rather than having to do things I don't understand or even want to understand.

Thats my way and it is different from other ways.

When I retire I may get more involved,  or not.

[BroadAmbition]

He is sharing it with us, but shouldn't have to keep on justifying his actions. Robin, please ignore the static hiss in the background and keep on with your journey, and updates.

Like it, only I would amend the Ignore the static to find the on off switch and move it permanently to off!

Griff

[KatieR]

Seems all very clear to me: Robins boat, Robins decision! 

Robin bought a lovely boat, she was looked after well by previous owners, upon taking her over Robin and other very experienced Team Indy members gave her a dose of looking at, made a list of things to do to satisfy themselves that she was in great shape (resisted the pun!) for a trip and noted a few bits here and there that would likely need to be addressed for test in Norfolk. Rather than crawl through the requirements, which whilst written can be subject to interpretation ( the only guarantee of correct interpretation is to ask the expert AKA a qualified tester), Robin went down the route of getting the expert in. Voila- the actual list of bits to do, all of which are resolvable, and ultimately getting Indy her ticket to cruise in quick time- spring is coming! (if you studiously igniore the current snow storms ) 

Must say, I’d probably have chosen to get the expert tester view too- eminently sensible to me -  likely to save me time/ money from getting something wrong, and I’m likely to better understand what needs to be done, why and how best. However, as eastcoast and psychicsurveyor said, people do thing differently and that is great too- it’s what makes us human. 

Personally, I really hope to see Indy cruising ASAP and if one way is get the current  ‘to do’ list from Tim , then happy days 

[Guest]

24 minutes ago, EastCoastIPA said:

Why can't people accept that we are all different? When my boat is due the BSS I print out the current BSS regs and then use that to check all the items on the boat and make sure to the best of my novice ability that everything is going to pass. I accept that I'm not an expert and that I may well miss things, especially things like gas pressure check, which I do not touch. When Tim turns up I have all the inspection panels etc. removed and ensure easy access to all the things I know he will want to see. I also update him on any modifications I may have made to the boat since the last BSS test. I then make us both a cup of coffee and pretty much leave him to it. That's just one way, and my way of tackling the test. I'm sure we all have our own way of doing it. Robin has his way and to be honest, it's not the way I would have done it, but then it's his boat and his journey. And that is the main point, it is his boat and his journey, to be completed his way. He is sharing it with us, but shouldn't have to keep on justifying his actions. Robin, please ignore the static hiss in the background and keep on with your journey, and updates.

Yes I'll agree there's a lot of static hiss about , that said I fully agree with your approach to BSS examination's that's exactly how iv always approached them and so far gained over a dozen first time passes .

And as Griff points out there's always the off button although mine seams to worn out of late 

[LondonRascal]

What made things different (for me) was the fact that this was a new to the Broads boat, so I expected an awful lot more to cause issues and also was worried that since it was built partly in Taiwan, a larger degree of the hoses and connectors and so on would not comply with our tougher standards in the UK - but thankfully that was not the case .They were fitted either in Taiwan or when the boat came off the ship in England for final fit out with compliant parts.

I appreciate a great number of people do like to do things themselves (where able) or wholly and they get a lot of satisfaction from so doing - not to mention the money savings that go with this. However, rather than me look through the BSS regulations and try and decide what may or may not be compliant and change some items before hand (like figure out the fire extinguisher ratings) I just waited to get the 'official line' on matters, get a list of those items that need attending to and then pass that list on to Norfolk Yacht Agency to sort out.

Yes it will cost me more in the long run, but I also have a degree of 'come back' just as I have with Espar who are now paying for NYA's labour and parts to put right matters. It just is an easy and simple route to take. 

A lot of the things I do and the manner in which I go about them may not be what the majority would do but that is why I am doing it the way I am. You won't see me doing things 'my way' and then telling others that is the best way, right way, preferred way etc - take the batteries - I am not going to say it is right for others, and I am not going to be there fitting them myself and filming things while someone comments at the risks I took, or shoddy job I made and then have me defend it. What you will see me do is sharing why I want something, getting it done by someone else and then sharing the results.

It is not about brownie points or wanting people to agree with a direction I may be taking it is simply doing something I want to do and sharing it with others.