Nighttime Navigation - Allowed? Opinions?

[JennyMorgan]

I always smile to myself when going past that particular 'shed'. Never recognised them walking around Lathams, would I have smirked I wonder?

[JennyMorgan]

6 minutes ago, JohnK said:

 

You think you have a mental image problem?
Guess what I’ll be imagining when I meet my new neighbours??!!


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Fairly short couple, both plump, downstream of the bridge 

[JohnK]

Fairly short couple, both plump, downstream of the bridge 

Shush


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[Guest]

11 minutes ago, JohnK said:

 

You think you have a mental image problem?
Guess what I’ll be imagining when I meet my new neighbours??!!


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Yea happy house warming John 

[JohnK]

Yea happy house warming John 

If you don’t play nicely I’ll post pictures


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[JennyMorgan]

9 minutes ago, JohnK said:

 

Shush


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Discretion is my middle name, now, which bank was it?

[TheQ]

10 hours ago, BroadAmbition said:

 

BTW, if you want some evening entertainment whilst night navving, cruise slowly through Potter Heigham with your nav lights off    They really should draw their curtains

Griff

or for more entertainment sail gently past moored hireboats during the night (during the 3 rivers race)

[Jim]

Another point about navigating after dark is insurance.  As a private owner I did check and as things stood years ago, I was not covered to navigate after dark and also not solo helm.  All covered now but not a bad idea to make that call and check.

[JohnK]

Another point about navigating after dark is insurance.  As a private owner I did check and as things stood years ago, I was not covered to navigate after dark and also not solo helm.  All covered now but not a bad idea to make that call and check.

Good call thank you.


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[JennyMorgan]

2 hours ago, TheQ said:

or for more entertainment sail gently past moored hireboats during the night (during the 3 rivers race)

Ohhh YES! Not in that race but on the traditional ghost wherry of Oulton Broad night although that was pure coincidence. We had sailed very close to one boat but thought nothing about it until the next morning when the local harbour master told us about a hysterical crew who had been moored in Oulton Dyke the previous evening and who had sighted the ghost ship. 

[LondonRascal]

Night time cruising is lovely because you have real freedom, but there are some aids that can help because often nature is not on your side in giving a clear moonlit night.

The first one I use is simply going online to see what the phase of the moon will be, and when it might rise that way I I know if I have that added 'torch from the heavens' or not.

Secondly, I use Google Maps on my phone in 'satellite mode'. It means that you can see your location in relation to the next bend or on the likes of Barton Broad knowing where the posts are in real time - just set the brightness to minimum and it will not mess with your eyes.

It is often the case you need to see something in the cockpit, but you do not want to put a light on or use a torch - a red light of the correct intensity and colour will not ruin night vision, a really cheap and effectively method we have on Broad Ambition are LED bike lamps. They cost £1 from Poundland and work a treat.

You can use external lighting, I have a temporary light that can be used - it is an LED mini light bar (36w) on a long cable to a plug that goes into a 'cigarette lighter socket' (now politically correctly referred to as an accessory socket) it can be handy at times but generally I cruise without it but for mooring it has been handy especially when angled to port slightly and so gives you a wide spread of light unlike a spot light's focused beam.

The real issue about night navigation on rivers is the relative narrowness and things like banks getting in the way but you also have to watch out in the early evening in popular places like Horning and Wroxham for craft underway (especially small dinghy with an outboard) who have no lighting at all. I would much prefer something even if not the correct form of navigation lights because it has happened to me - two years ago - bringing Broad Ambition down to Potter Heigham on a Friday night in October to meet with crews of the other boats for Lads Week. 

As we passed Thurne Mill and the dyke a couple in a dinghy shot out across our bows  - no lights - and was only the sound of their engine that alerted me that something was there. It is however magical as too is the other end of the scale, cruising at first light.

 

[Oddfellow]

If I can clarify this issue with night navigation. 

The bylaws, specifically 33B and 33c, use the terms Sunrise and Sunset. Not Night and Day. 

The point being that, navigating whilst not displaying the correct lights between the time of Sunset to Sunrise is in contravention. This is precisely where we stand at Freedom. 

 

http://www.broads-authority.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0008/399230/Navigation_Byelaws_1995-1.pdf

[grendel]

Reading the very first page of the navigation Bylaws - does that mean that it is technically possible to navigate a hire boat across Breydon after sunset without lights and without contravening the Broads Authority navigation Bylaws? (ignoring for the moment the bylaws pertaining to the Great Yarmouth port Authority and the agreement signed up to with the boat yard) for instance from the Gt Yarmouth Yacht station to the Burgh Castle marina?

[JawsOrca]

3 minutes ago, grendel said:

Reading the very first page of the navigation Bylaws - does that mean that it is technically possible to navigate a hire boat across Breydon after sunset without lights and without contravening the Broads Authority navigation Bylaws? (ignoring for the moment the bylaws pertaining to the Great Yarmouth port Authority and the agreement signed up to with the boat yard) for instance from the Gt Yarmouth Yacht station to the Burgh Castle marina?

Yes but no.. Colregs or (GY PA bylaws) which are really a copy of the BA bylaws (if not just a bit complicated) will apply, so no... it may also mean that many broads boats will be in breach as the BA lights bylaws are different.

[Vaughan]

Colregs were extensively re-written at the end of 1964 - just after I passed my exams, which is typical!

Before then, a vessel under 50 ft merely had to carry a portable white light (such as a torch) which could be shown if necessary to avoid collision. So there was no need for nav lights on the Broads. Remember that the big white half moon on the bows of a wherry was so that they could see each other coming in the dark. If we were moving hire boats about at night, we simply turned a light on in the fore and aft cabins and closed the curtains. This made you clearly visible to anyone else under way, but did not spoil night vision. In the 70s, we were still happily going around without lights and no-one seemed to mind.

In other countries of Europe hire boats are fitted with nav lights, by EC regulations. They still can't drive at night though, because of the contract of hire and the insurance. This also applies to the Broads. I believe that vessels under 50ft may carry portable battery-powered lights which are not a fixed installation. This is certainly so on the Thames.

Remember that "navigation" lights are the red and green sidelights and the white sternlight. These indicate that you are "under way" and are all that is carried by a sailing boat. The upper, white "steaming" light indicates that you are under motor power.

An all round white light on top of the flag mast is an anchor light, not a steaming light! And on top of the mast, it's in the wrong place anyway!

 

[Malanka]

Done the Ant in the dark, done the Bure in the dark, Ludham bridge with Guest Charlie Dolphin at the helm in the pitch black (no moonlight) was fun as it was cold we didn't take the lid down and had to spy the bridge clearance with me perched in the pulpit leaning over the rail to see it. We have two lights in the wheelhouse ceiling, one white light, one red light for night naving. I must say I don't use the red one when moving just in preparation as someone earlier said with the light on you can't see anything. Great night vision but can't actually see out.

Last trip out in October we left Ranworth Staithe at 05:45 pitch black and headed back to Stalham to catch our onward journeys. Full crew that time so bridges not a worry with canopies etc. Was magical leaving at that time and slowly cruising along was very enjoyable. Sun came up half way up the Ant so it was magical to see that too.

We quite often night nav to Salhouse or Ranworth to drop the mudweight as it doesn't matter what time we arrive, not to be done with dog on board but fun when no animals are with us. The twitchy boat curtains as we smoothly float past moored boats always makes me smile and yes before you pervs all ask I have seen things I would rather not have seen moving at night.  My retinas have been burned by bottoms, boobs and other stuff I'd rather not remember. Having my night vision ruined by a pair of glaringly white orbs wobbling in the window is a mind picture I wish to forget. Not seen spanking either though Jenny thank god for that I say too.

When we have been out for Halloweeen we have decorated the boat with lights, scary carved pumpkins and other spooky stuff and cruised up and down from Salhouse to Wroxham a few times that was fun too, loads of waving and happiness, spooky music is essential so folks can hear you coming and get the kids out to say hi.

Just another way to enjoy the rivers and have shared fun really.

[JawsOrca]

On 06/12/2017 at 09:24, Vaughan said:

Remember that "navigation" lights are the red and green sidelights and the white sternlight. These indicate that you are "under way" and are all that is carried by a sailing boat. The upper, white "steaming" light indicates that you are under motor power.

An all round white light on top of the flag mast is an anchor light, not a steaming light! And on top of the mast, it's in the wrong place anyway!

 

It's certainly a case of make as complicated as posible! (http://www.rya.org.uk/SiteCollectionDocuments/cruising/Web Documents/Regulations and Safety/Lights-and-shape-summary.pdf) 

I've gone for safety first and the boats have streaming lights, side lights and a stern light, an all round is used when "anchored"..