The Rights And Wrongs Of Rights Of Way

[marshman]

And don't forget, whatever they say or mean, just miss the bloomin' one with a big black sail because if you don't, it will hurt you more than her!!!!!

[TheQ]

Yes  rule 19 is what you are expected to do in normal circumstances..

17 is what you should do all the time,

18 tells you when you should take avoiding action.

16 tells you how to do it..

 

 

[CaptDave]

 I stand by my previous comments, and those who think we should lighten up and let common sense prevail better read the By laws  these By Laws are a legally binding document and will be used to prosecute in the event of an accident. It would do some people good to read the section on navigation lights some think that by sticking a couple of flood lights on the bow this allows them to travel around in the dark. Wrong!  The one thing that annoys me is the section on mooring people moor in front of a board that says you can stop for 24hrs then you have to move. How many of us have been looking for spots and seen the same boat in the same place day after day.  There are two boats at Stalham Dyke these are the subject of many a debate at the local council meetings they are permanent live aboard boats and from what I can see dubious suitability to be afloat but the point is the Broads Authority has the power to move them on.  As an angler as well I have to move from a BA mooring if its needed by a boat yet boats that over stay by days, weeks months even are ignored something not right here. 

[Polly]

I was with you until you told people they had better read the  bye laws. The tone can get members backs up however right you are, and you are indeed right.  

[Hockham Admiral]

I can't remember where I first saw/read this but does it still apply nowadays?

"Rules were meant for the obedience of fools and the guidance of wise men"

[MauriceMynah]

Quote was from Douglas Bader (as I think secretly you knew :-)  ) and yes it still applies or should do.

[vanessan]

2 hours ago, CaptDave said:

read the By laws  these By Laws are a legally binding document and will be used to prosecute in the event of an accident.

So we read, understand and abide strictly by the bye laws? Then a boat comes along with the helm doing what he/she thinks is the correct thing to do and no intention of giving way to anyone else. We’re ok because we know the bye laws so we keep going and, oh dear we’ve had a mishap! Never mind, we’re in the right so the damage to our boat will be taken care of. What about all the trauma of proving who is right, getting the boat fixed etc etc? Whereas, had we used common sense and held back realising there was a **** at the helm, all would be well. Sorry, for me it’s a no-brainer. Know the bye laws by all means and use them where appropriate but don’t give up on common sense, it can be very useful.

[TheQ]

25 minutes ago, MauriceMynah said:

Quote was from Douglas Bader (as I think secretly you knew :-)  ) and yes it still applies or should do.

just to be Awkward it was from Squadron Leader Day TO Douglas Bader, many many years ago I corrected a teacher on that one in front of all the other teachers I had just read the book the day before... He wasn't happy...

[MauriceMynah]

1 minute ago, TheQ said:

just to be Awkward

You ??   Awkward ????    Never let it be said!

[TheQ]

1 minute ago, vanessan said:

So we read, understand and abide strictly by the bye laws? Then a boat comes along with the helm doing what he/she thinks is the correct thing to do and no intention of giving way to anyone else. We’re ok because we know the bye laws so we keep going and, oh dear we’ve had a mishap! Never mind, we’re in the right so the damage to our boat will be taken care of. What about all the trauma of proving who is right, getting the boat fixed etc etc? Whereas, had we used common sense and held back realising there was a **** at the helm, all would be well. Sorry, for me it’s a no-brainer. Know the bye laws by all means and use them where appropriate but don’t give up on common sense, it can be very useful.

in that case you would not be obaying the by laws because by law 18 (2)

(2) When for any reason the master of a vessel required under these Byelaws to keep its course and speed finds his vessel so close that collision cannot be avoided by the action of the give way vessel alone he shall take such action as will best aid to avoid collision.
 

[MauriceMynah]

Sorry Vanessan, but you did kinda walk into that one. :-)

[vanessan]

38 minutes ago, TheQ said:

in that case you would not be obaying the by laws because by law 18 (2)

(2) When for any reason the master of a vessel required under these Byelaws to keep its course and speed finds his vessel so close that collision cannot be avoided by the action of the give way vessel alone he shall take such action as will best aid to avoid collision.
 

But that is exactly what I am saying! Common sense will tell you that you have to act to avoid collision. 

[vanessan]

13 minutes ago, vanessan said:

But that is exactly what I am saying! Common sense will tell you that you have to act to avoid collision. 

I will add to that, surely it is better to act earlier rather than at the last minute. Common sense?

[Wyndham]

9 hours ago, vanessan said:

But that is exactly what I am saying! Common sense will tell you that you have to act to avoid collision. 

Agree V 100%

All that is needed on the broads is common sense and common courtesy.

No need at all to read and understand regs, byelaws etc..

It takes two to have a collision, if one has CS or CC then no collision.

IMO of course.

[Polly]

I disagree Wyndham, knowing what ought to happen is half the battle. You aren’t then just making up a strategy as you go along, while the other helms are doing that too with maybe different/ conflicting outcomes.

The Broads are, however,  navigated by lots of novices who may only know about keeping right and avoiding a sailboat, so, yes flexibility is needed. But COLREGS, and no doubt bye laws, do expect everyone to avoid a collision even if it means giving up a right of way so there’s no justifation for standing on one’s position no matter what. Which is indeed common sense.

[Wyndham]

1 hour ago, Polly said:

I disagree Wyndham,

and then said

 

1 hour ago, Polly said:

The Broads are, however,  navigated by lots of novices who may only know about keeping right and avoiding a sailboat, so, yes flexibility is needed. But COLREGS, and no doubt bye laws, do expect everyone to avoid a collision even if it means giving up a right of way so there’s no justifation for standing on one’s position no matter what. Which is indeed common sense.

So we do agree??? no need to read anything...common sense

[vanessan]

It is surely necessary for all private boat owners to have a reasonable working knowledge of the bye laws? I would also think that most long term hirers would want and benefit from the same but we can’t expect the majority of hirers to know very much more than the basics. 

7 hours ago, Polly said:

The Broads are, however,  navigated by lots of novices who may only know about keeping right and avoiding a sailboat, so, yes flexibility is needed. But COLREGS, and no doubt bye laws, do expect everyone to avoid a collision even if it means giving up a right of way so there’s no justifation for standing on one’s position no matter what. Which is indeed common sense.

I think that sums it up rather well. Although we put it different ways, I do believe we are all (well, mostly) singing from the same song sheet. 

As in -

7 hours ago, Wyndham said:

It takes two to have a collision, if one has CS or CC then no collision.

 

 

[MauriceMynah]

8 hours ago, Polly said:

The Broads are, however,  navigated by lots of novices who may only know about keeping right ...

This is true, but it's not just the novices. A glaring error I made just a few years back was when an incident happened at Ludham Bridge. There was a novice coming up astern of me, rather fast. There was a sailing boat pushing off from close to the bridge, just up stream, and something else was going on, I can't remember what.

I was committed to going under the bridge, and two boats coming upstream were waiting for me. I was so concentrating on what was going on that immediately after the bridge, I steered to port to pass starboard to starboard road driving style. It was instinctive and only occurred to me when I saw the confusion I was causing.

There were no problems because all the other craft behaved with courtesy and forgiveness to the prat who was getting it wrong. I was the private boat, they were hire craft.

There was no shouting! There was no anger. All was peace and harmony.   Just as it should be!