The Little People

[JennyMorgan]

Unearthed this the other day, doesn't seem possible that 12 yrs ago the Broads Authority condoned the use of the term, thus boaters on the Broads became 'The Little Men', p.c. 'Little People'. Anyway, here's a link that explains some of the history of this one. Amazing that it happened all those years ago! Not sure that much has changed in the meantime!

http://www.broadly-speaking.co.uk/forum/topic679;don-t-forget?fbclid=IwAR1L-oFqyPc4ws24yj6jEYKk-jIs4mK1YpmxXkZUSniFAY007aX7xSf0dIw

[MauriceMynah]

I can tell you something that I suspect has NOT changed...

 

Somebody in the BA makes an insulting statement.

People clamour for an apology.

He apologises.

The same people look at each other and say   "That's not enough, we demand a resignation"

He resigns

The same people look at each other and say  "That's not enough, We demand another resignation"

And so on and so forth.

 

Tony Stapleton & Hillary Frantzen should consider themselves lucky that those same people were not demanding ritual suicide. It seems to me a fine illustration of the problems that occur in trial by forum. Even when the case is won, more is demanded.

The other thing that appears to be the case is that you (Peter) seem to be trawling the history of the internet to find things to throw at the BA

46 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

Anyway, here's a link that explains some of the history of this one.

This is a misleading statement. it is a link that gives the entire story, not an explanation of the history of an on-going situation.

Sorry Peter, but that's the way I see it.

[batrabill]

Let he that is without sin cast the first stone. 

[Paladin]

The historical point is quite interesting. It shows that some people have very long memories, but I would have thought that there has been a substantial change of personnel (employees and members) since then, with a notable exception.

It is also interesting to note that the expression that caused so much apparent offence  was:  "As we prepare for the onslaught of the little men tomorrow... "

By the next day, that reference was changed by a poster in the following manner, "As a toll payer, and thus one of the little people, I did take offense, although I accept that that was not what Mr Stapleton intended.
Pete Sanders, the Nav Com that I am involved with has considerable sympathy with the boating fraternity, after all many of us are boaters, indeed many of us are also 'little people'."

That reference to 'the little people' has persisted, even in the title of this thread, while the original form has been forgotten. Pedantry on my part that may be, but calling a group 'little people' is, perhaps even more derogatory.

 

[JennyMorgan]

Coincidently the term was actually repeated the following day at an annual public meeting, albeit the microphone had inadvertently been turned on prior to the start of the meeting. JP was asked to distance himself & the BA from the comment but that didn't happen. Anyway, if folk have bothered to read the whole link they would have read that I was supportive of Hilary Franzen who I always regarded as a pawn. Hilary was back then the wife of the EDP Editor and presumably provided a hoped for link to the editorial desk. 

It wasn't just trial by forum but arrows being fired at JP who was known to assiduously read what was then Speaker's Corner. Stapleton did resign, as he should, after all he did readily admit to and apologize for his indiscretion.  It did highlight the void between the Authority and the toll payer and it clearly resonates to this day and regretfully illustrates the democratic deficit and lack of rapport that still exists in various quarters. I suspect that the term 'little people' is often used as a reminder for JP's benefit as well as a badge of honour by the user!  

In resurrecting this subject I have reminded folk of the origins of the derogatory use of the term and that a nod to political correctness, with a tint of humour perhaps, was behind the minor change to the original. 

In the meantime, twelve years later and even after a critical NP review, are we really any closer to a healthy relationship between the Authority executive & the Little People?  

[Vaughan]

And next came the feral people. Living in a shanty town. Remember that one?

No resignations on that disgraceful occasion, though.

[batrabill]

Isn't this sort of thing more appropriate to Protect The Broads We are Not a National Park, on Facebook? A group that share your views?

 

[JennyMorgan]

Bill, so you don't wish to read views that are contrary to your own then why on earth do you read my outpourings?

[Paladin]

24 minutes ago, batrabill said:

Isn't this sort of thing more appropriate to Protect The Broads We are Not a National Park, on Facebook? A group that share your views?

 

I don't have a problem with this subject being raised. It is more relevant to 'Norfolk Broads' than several other topics that have been discussed here. As someone who thrives on facts, I am pleased to now know how the reference originated. It demonstrates an historic disdain for the boating community, which can still be detected today (that's just an opinion, though).

[batrabill]

I read most things Mr Waller, but you see, you don’t know what things say till after you’ve read them. That’s how reading works. 

 

Dredging up things from the past has some function beyond your relentless efforts to discredit John Packman?

[JennyMorgan]

13 minutes ago, batrabill said:

Dredging up things from the past has some function beyond your relentless efforts to discredit John Packman?

Even if it has relevance today? Anyway, that aside, I was actually explaining the origin of an oft used term to describe us generally ignored toll payers, a term that many will be familiar with but perhaps not be aware of its unfortunate history. 

I don't have to discredit JP 

 

[BroadAmbition]

I don't have to discredit JP 

Of course you don't

He manages that quite successfully all on his own

Griff

[batrabill]

5 hours ago, JennyMorgan said:

Even if it has relevance today? Anyway, that aside, I was actually explaining the origin of an oft used term to describe us generally ignored toll payers, a term that many will be familiar with but perhaps not be aware of its unfortunate history. 

I don't have to discredit JP 

 

Jeez. You are that ‘friend’ who insults you, and then says “I was “just saying””, aren’t you?

If JP discredits himself, why did you have to post this 10 year old stuff? Is JP slacking in his self-discrediting so you’d thought you’d lend a hand?

#justsaying

[Paladin]

2 hours ago, batrabill said:

Jeez. You are that ‘friend’ who insults you, and then says “I was “just saying””, aren’t you?

If JP discredits himself, why did you have to post this 10 year old stuff? Is JP slacking in his self-discrediting so you’d thought you’d lend a hand?

#justsaying

I see we’re back to personal attacks on another member. That’s very regrettable, as there is actually some value in looking back at history. The forum on which that particular history is recorded was one of the first Broads Forums, if not the first. Many late-comer ‘little men’ don’t know of its existence, yet there is other content there that it would be unfortunate to lose. Broadly Speaking is moribund and could be taken off the Web at any moment and all that history would be lost. If nothing else, this thread has brought that forum to the fore and those interested on what went on before could do worse than explore it.

 

[batrabill]

Paladin, you love a wind-up don't you?

You know very well what I am saying - that JM isn't trying to be helpful to us the little people whop don't understand it as well as he does, he is lobbying for his view. That is presenting information (which to me seems pretty irrelevant now) which supports his view, with no obvious justification other than it supports his view.

He also knows that very well.

 

Edited March 20, 2019 by grendel
removed members personal name

[JennyMorgan]

Bill, you don't know me nor, it would seem, my motives. You can attack me as much as you like, doesn't bother me in the least, especially as it gives me a right of reply and to do so in the same insulting manner. 

Where we have been is relevant to where we are going, surely. This particular own goal set the tone for much that has followed on since. It was when harmony and trust headed for the open door. Surely even you can see that?

 

[grendel]

29 minutes ago, batrabill said:

Paladin, you love a wind-up don't you?

You know very well what I am saying - that Mr Waller isn't trying to be helpful to us the little people whop don't understand it as well as he does, he is lobbying for his view. That is presenting information (which to me seems pretty irrelevant now) which supports his view, with no obvious justification other than it supports his view.

He also knows that very well.

 

Bill,

I am sure if you could find similar information to present to prop up the alternative view, then you too would. 

[JennyMorgan]

What does annoy me is when people come onboard NBN with the avowed intention of creating conflict. Mutual acquaintances, baring in mind that the Broads is actually a very small world, tell me that in conversation one or two well known fans of the Doctor are actually quite critical of him. Pass wind in Ludham and sooner or later it will waft along the rivers until it reaches Oulton Broad. Someone always knows someone else! 

[batrabill]

1 hour ago, JennyMorgan said:

What does annoy me is when people come onboard NBN with the avowed intention of creating conflict. Mutual acquaintances, baring in mind that the Broads is actually a very small world, tell me that in conversation one or two well known fans of the Doctor are actually quite critical of him. Pass wind in Ludham and sooner or later it will waft along the rivers until it reaches Oulton Broad. Someone always knows someone else! 

Avowed intent?? Like you do when you deliberately post things you know will get pushback?

I’m unclear what you are saying with the flatulent piece? You know quite well I live in Ludham because you have a history of false rumours you’ve spread about me. 

I never realised your skin was so thin. 

[JennyMorgan]

I would be pleased to review those so called false rumours, Mr xxxxxxxx. 

That most of my Broads comments are posted on NBN does, I think, give me a certain right of passage after all this time. I don't just visit when I see a opportunity for a tad of vitriol, not likes some people that we both know!

Edited March 20, 2019 by grendel
personal information removed

[grendel]

gentlemen, please remember to remain cordial between each other (and I dont mean the Robinsons fruit stuff you get at wimbledon - even though watching over this thread is a bit like watching a tennis match).

Thanks

[KaptinKev]

Just a food for thought, the term "Little people" was used on Yes Prime Minister to described the general public.

[Paul]

On 20/03/2019 at 09:36, batrabill said:

You know very well what I am saying - that JM isn't trying to be helpful to us the little people whop don't understand it as well as he does, he is lobbying for his view.

well he gets my vote .......

On 19/03/2019 at 22:09, batrabill said:

Dredging up things

at least someones doing some dredging ....