Acle B.N.P.

[Vaughan]

I think perhaps I ought to explain myself, as I would certainly not wish to cause any mis-understanding.  As this thread is already in the new Speakers' Corner, maybe I can have my say here, without falling foul of a moderator.  I was not just reacting to a small post which "had a smiley face attached" but also to a PM which followed it up.  That did not have a smiley attached.

I do not feel "hounded out" by a few people who have been expressing strong views, as I welcome those views!  They come from those of us who are concerned for the future of the Broads as we have known them all our lives.  I don't "bash the BA" for the sake of it and I am sure the "usual suspects" don't either but we will surely identify and point up those areas where we feel the BA are not acting in the best interests of the Broads as we love them.  And we will back up these opinions with fact and experience.  This is our right of free expression and this forum is one of the only places left where we can still hold an un-elected quango to account.  I speak as an ex member of the management of the Broads Society in the days when it was a voice of public opinion and influence on the Broads.  Sadly that has just become a "damp squib" these days and I don't want the same thing to happen here.

There are several threads here, where we can all have fun, talk of our holiday tales and have to guess which pub the photo of a beer was taken in.  Please, I don't disparage that for a moment!  Indeed I have often posted my idea of where the pub was and always got it wrong!  But surely, this is just the "gravy" on the Sunday lunch?  The real "meat and veg" of the forum should be much more than that!

I have spent the last week reading the forum without logging on, so I have been a "guest".  I have been reading back on posts in "Broads chat" over the last few years, which are all there for anyone to read and they are a fascinating library of experience, knowledge, history, technology and most important - considered opinion.  Just look at this thread, about Acle road signs!  It has so far been viewed by 17,490 people since it started only 4 weeks ago.  You can bet your boots  that those are not all "members only"!

As to members' behaviour in discussion -  this is social media for Goodness' sake!  "Stuff happens"!  When people are giving personal opinions about a subject which is dear to them, there are going to be a few rough edges.  Surely we are all grown up enough to realise that?  I would have thought this forum is an excellent example of comportment.  At least compared to its own facebook page which is, bizarrely, supervised by the same moderators!

My adverse reaction is not sudden. It has come about over several weeks and months where I have become ever more frustrated that every time we "get our teeth" into a subject which is important for all who want a good future for the Broads, it is shut off by a style of moderation which has become too risk averse.  Please, moderators, don't be so frightened of honestly expressed opinion, especially when it is backed up by documented fact.  If not, as some have suggested, the forum will stagnate, as others have before it.  Paladin, who is an expert on the subject, has already agreed with me that you are not committing libel if you are telling the truth.  That is the meaning of the law.

Meantime, I have found that I am rather annoyed by it and there is no fun in that.  So I will join ChrisB and one or two others (who I notice by their absence) and take a bit of a holiday.  And while we are talking of posts with smileys attached, I will leave you with this one.

Perhaps we should reflect on it.

 

[D46]

What an excellent post 100%  common sense , and don't make that holiday too long please .

[JennyMorgan]

Thank you, Vaughan, I hope that your obviously wise words will be heeded.

[Paladin]

Back on topic, the attached photo has just appeared on FB. This is criminal damage and cannot be condone, but perhaps it is an indication of the strong feeling against these signs.

[JennyMorgan]

With the right solvent that should wipe off without actual damage.

I share Paladin's view on this one nevertheless, if the sign is of the usual road sign quality, then the damage should be nothing more than an inconvenience to the BA.   .

[Paladin]

I've just seen another one that's received the same treatment. Perhaps the BA might need to invest in CCTV at all the sites.

[Paladin]

On 26/01/2020 at 16:31, JennyMorgan said:

With the right solvent that should wipe off without actual damage.

I share Paladin's view on this one nevertheless, if the sign is of the usual road sign quality, then the damage should be nothing more than an inconvenience to the BA.   .

But if the wrong solvent is used...

[ExSurveyor]

How ironic, when I had a penalty notice wrongly issued and stuck on to a perspex window, the response from BA was, it will come off without damage if i took my time to remove it.

Perhaps they have someone available to spend a couple of hours to clean the sign after some fool damaged it.

They can also mutter about 'idiots' whilst they clean it off, as I did.

 

[JennyMorgan]

1 hour ago, Paladin said:

But if the wrong solvent is used...

Oh dear, must have been the wrong aerosol paint!

[BroadAmbition]

If the 'Idiots' that applied it used proper quality 'Good Stuff' in the first instance, then there wouldn't be any need for any attempts at removing it in the second instance!

Griff

[JennyMorgan]

https://www.google.co.uk/search?safe=strict&sxsrf=ACYBGNTgYu1htsfi-phOImBKriuOvFPK-A%3A1580237981212&ei=nYQwXsXNDOWX1fAP8eWTuAw&q=removing+graffiti+from+road+signs&oq=removing+graffiti+from+r&gs_l=psy-ab.1.3.0l3j0i22i30j0i333.35578.45002..49748...0.2..0.103.525.6j1......0....1..gws-wiz.......0i71j0i67.yx6IWccXI7E#kpvalbx=_0IQwXtKDHJeD8gLN9oSgAw30

[floydraser]

On 26/01/2020 at 14:03, Paladin said:

Back on topic, the attached photo has just appeared on FB. This is criminal damage and cannot be condone, but perhaps it is an indication of the strong feeling against these signs.

And what great strategic plan is this a part of?

This is the action of someone prepared to soil on their own doorstep. It looks like a vandal started at the right and ran out of paint. I don't see any message about discontent, just the usual bored youth stuff. Any visitor to the area would be influenced as to the kind of area they are entering. May put holiday makers and tourists off, or is that part of the plan?

[JennyMorgan]

I note on FaceBook that now several more signs have been similarly vandalised and subsequently further damaged by unsuitable cleaning techniques. Both Norfolk and Suffolk County Councils seem capable of cleaning defaced road signs without needing to replace them. I can't & won't condone wilful damage like this but then I also won't support the telling of porkies by governing Authorities. 

[Paladin]

46 minutes ago, floydraser said:

And what great strategic plan is this a part of?

This is the action of someone prepared to soil on their own doorstep. It looks like a vandal started at the right and ran out of paint. I don't see any message about discontent, just the usual bored youth stuff. Any visitor to the area would be influenced as to the kind of area they are entering. May put holiday makers and tourists off, or is that part of the plan?

I don't know of any 'plan', but, living locally, I've seen the results of the vandalism affecting several BNP signs, in villages 6 or 7 miles apart. I can't see the 'bored youth' of the area bothering to cycle around the countryside for such a purpose.

The over-spraying has only affected the words 'National Park'. The word 'Broads' and the village names have been untouched. You might not be seeing any message, but I'm pretty certain the Broads Authority does.

[JennyMorgan]

54 minutes ago, floydraser said:

And what great strategic plan is this a part of?

I am not convinced that it is part of any great plan. Perhaps right and proper is too slow for some folk but nevertheless it has a lot to commend it. Two wrongs don't make a right, as my wise and revered old granny used to say!

[JennyMorgan]

6 minutes ago, Paladin said:

You might not be seeing any message, but I'm pretty certain the Broads Authority does.

I wish that I could share your confidence on that one! Anyway, since when has public opinion mattered? 

[Paladin]

2 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

I am not convinced that it is part of any great plan. Perhaps right and proper is too slow for some folk but nevertheless it has a lot to commend it. Two wrongs don't make a right, as my wise and revered old granny used to say!

But two rites can make a wrong...bigamy  

[floydraser]

7 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

... it has a lot to commend it. 

But you just said you wouldn't condone it? You sort of just have. But anyway, what is there to commend about this wilful damage that you may or may not condone?

[Paladin]

2 minutes ago, floydraser said:

But you just said you wouldn't condone it? You sort of just have. But anyway, what is there to commend about this wilful damage that you may or may not condone?

Perhaps you should spend a little more time reading what people actually post before jumping in with both feet. Read what JM said again and look at what I've emphasised. He hasn't condoned causing the damage.

12 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

I am not convinced that it is part of any great plan. Perhaps right and proper is too slow for some folk but nevertheless it has a lot to commend it. Two wrongs don't make a right, as my wise and revered old granny used to say!

 

[floydraser]

13 minutes ago, Paladin said:

I don't know of any 'plan', but, living locally, I've seen the results of the vandalism affecting several BNP signs, in villages 6 or 7 miles apart. I can't see the 'bored youth' of the area bothering to cycle around the countryside for such a purpose.

The over-spraying has only affected the words 'National Park'. The word 'Broads' and the village names have been untouched. You might not be seeing any message, but I'm pretty certain the Broads Authority does.

Ok so we've established there is no plan, or strategy.

I was to trying to express that the visitor to this area who would not know anything about this issue, would just see a messed up sign and judge the area accordingly.

[floydraser]

Just now, Paladin said:

Perhaps you should spend a little more time reading what people actually post before jumping in with both feet. Read what JM said again and look at what I've emphasised. He hasn't condoned causing the damage.

 

Apologies, my mistake.

[JennyMorgan]

29 minutes ago, floydraser said:

I was to trying to express that the visitor to this area who would not know anything about this issue, would just see a messed up sign and judge the area accordingly.

Fair comment but the fact is that these contentious, misleading signs have been erected. 

[floydraser]

30 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

Fair comment but the fact is that these contentious, misleading signs have been erected. 

Yep, but they're smart, presentable and part of a well planned strategy. Criminal damage is not. Criminal damage cannot be seen to influence decision making so it was never a clever thing to do. But then again: would anyone like to volunteer to superglue themselves to Reedham Ferry? 

[D46]

3 hours ago, floydraser said:

Yep, but they're smart, presentable and part of a well planned strategy. Criminal damage is not. Criminal damage cannot be seen to influence decision making so it was never a clever thing to do. But then again: would anyone like to volunteer to superglue themselves to Reedham Ferry? 

It would be a bit pointless superglueing yourself to the ferry it's having an overhaul at the moment  , it's a pleasure to go past just now not living in fear of it diving out right infront of you as it so often does .

Criminal damage has never been the smart option but then again neither has riding rough shod over people's opinions or pushing the boundaries of what is advertising / marketing and what is definitely not , either way BA won't give a dam they will just Carry on until one day they take things too far and someone of statue tells them to pack it in , until that time anyone who disagrees with their plans for what they want will get totally ignored , and that's been proven time and time again .

[MauriceMynah]

Just a thought, If the BA pay for repairing or replacing the signs, could that come out of the navigation kitty?

I add my voice to those saying this is a pointless act of vandalism, and one that says more about the perpetrator than the target.