Power Pole Etiquette

[rightsaidfred]

Perhaps illegal is the wrong word but they are against the BA use of points.

How to charge your electric boat (broads-authority.gov.How to charge your electric boat (broads-authority.gov.uk)uk)

Only connect one boat to one socket • Check your cable is not damaged and is a continuous length without joins • Disconnect all electrical equipment • Ensure all electrical connections are clean and free from moisture • Arrange cable so it will not fall in the water if it becomes disconnected • Ensure cable is not a trip hazard or obstruction.

Fred

Sorry link not working

[Meantime]

29 minutes ago, BroadAmbition said:

Why on earth would a splitter be illegal?  If they are indeed illegal why then are they manufactured and sold freely in many outlets?

We have one and have used it many times to share with another boat.

We also have a 32a to 16a conversion plug too but have not used that many times

Griff

They are not illegal, just not allowed by The Broads Authority. Their post, their rules. They could just as easily come along and unplug you.

Only connect one boat to one socket
• Check your cable is not damaged and is a continuous length without joins
• Disconnect all electrical equipment
• Ensure all electrical connections are clean and free from moisture
• Arrange cable so it will not fall in the water if it becomes disconnected
• Ensure cable is not a trip hazard or obstruction

 

Charging-points-2014.pdf

[rightsaidfred]

Rangers can, will and have unplugged boats using splitters to my knowledge although they generally turn a blind eye to extensions. 

What anyone chooses to do and the consequences is up to them but to encourage others is totally wrong especially on open forum.

Fred

[Meantime]

As I alluded to at the start of this thread, it needs to be remembered that these are Electric Boat Charging Posts. If used for that purpose it would be expected that there would be a large current draw, hence the provision of 32 amp sockets as well. If they were being used correctly for charging electric boats then whilst a splitter may not be illegal it would encourage drawing too much current and causing the breaker to trip.

We also need to consider that there is no ideal place to site an electric post in a public environment without causing some sort of potential hazard. Extra cables, connectors and splitters all present an extra hazard to others using the public area.

 

[Bikertov]

2 hours ago, andyg said:

I have a quick question for the more knowledgeable. We are on golden bridge next week. She isn't equipped with 240v but has a 240v plug for phone charging . Will this charge a smart speaker or do I need to purchase a cigarette lighter type lead. 

I would have thought that is OK - both are very light current draw of typically less than 2A @ 5V (so less than 10W power, equating to less that 50mA at 230V)

[annv]

Hi I use a coke can inverter plugged into the 12volt sockit to run my latest ResMed, i do remove the heater/humidifier unit when on the boat as this uses more currant, in fact i dont notice much difference from it than at home. Also never had a ranger or other even at Ranworth unplug me John

[ScrumpyCheddar]

Nowt wrong with splitters.. We all use to share electric posts with splitters at Beccles  yacht station a few years ago and I still use my splitter and share with other boaters .. just a shame about the electric posts at Beccles  now ...

Anyway here’s a nice pic I took back 2016 when we could all split an share .

NB The is a historic photo and the NBN in no way supports or encourages this type of behaviour.

[andyg]

9 hours ago, Bikertov said:

I would have thought that is OK - both are very light current draw of typically less than 2A @ 5V (so less than 10W power, equating to less that 50mA at 230V)

Spoke with the yard today, your pretty much spot on. She's got a 200w inverter so will be fine. She's had an engine change as well the old bmc has been swapped for a nanni so should be quiter. 

[Bikertov]

You will find that all the mains plug style of adapter will have a sticker showing the power rating or current draw it can provide. In reality the actual current draw would be a bit below that.

Just remember Power (Watts) = Voltage (Volts) x Current (Amps), so for instance 5V at 2A = 10W

In the case of the boat you are taking, use the calculation to keep the power draw to under 200W

[andyg]

7 hours ago, ScrumpyCheddar said:

Nowt wrong with splitters.. We all use to share electric posts with splitters at Beccles  yacht station a few years ago and I still use my splitter and share with other boaters .. just a shame about the electric posts at Beccles  now ...

Anyway here’s a nice pic I took back 2016 when we could all split an share .

Until it blows up..

[grendel]

the real issue here is that once plugged in, how many people really understand that they have roughly the equivalent of a single 13A socket at home, add a splitter and at best you have 8A per boat.

if both parties understand the limitations of using a splitter and can keep the consumption down (eg I will plug in just to keep the batteries topped up from the drain of the fridge, avoiding the need to run the engine, so 8A is plenty,

but say for instance the temperature drops and i want to run the 500W heaters, then I would want to be on a post on my own.

the assumption that is made is that once you are on shore supply you can just plug in devices as you would normally at home, this is where the danger of overloading the charge point comes in, it wouldnt take much, someone on one boat using an electric kettle, someone else running a hair dryer each about 2.5kW (possibly- but between 2 and 3 kW each- according to google) and you are now using 500W more than a power post can supply, yes its that easy to go past the 16A limit and trip out the post.

add a microwave into the mix, and there another possible 1kW

so white splitters can be used, they must be used responsibly and the loads in use calculated.

should they be used casually- no, not if those using them dont understand the fact that its a limited supply.

then there is the splitter cable, in theory it should be regularly tested, the terminals should be checked and tight, and its general condition checked.

come on, hands up everyone who has a splitter, have you had it tested every year?

I thought not.- shore leads and splitters should be tested, or at very least inspected regularly, has the insulation been fixed with some electrical tape? is that really safe if the cable gets dipped in the water?.

 

[Smoggy]

4 minutes ago, grendel said:

come on, hands up everyone who has a splitter, have you had it tested every year?

Nope, mine is a fully encapsulated plastic thing though not a homemade.

5 minutes ago, grendel said:

has the insulation been fixed with some electrical tape?

That bit got took out at the first opportunity, it's now a few metres shorter.

Not sure on the legallity of the wrong colour/voltage leads is in a public place but my shorter leads are yellow as think it stands out on grass better than blue (and I inherited a few yellow 110v site leads).

 

I probably also shouldn't have 13a to 16a, 16a to 13a, 32a to 16a.

Anyone got a spare fire extinguisher?

[grendel]

4 minutes ago, Smoggy said:

Anyone got a spare fire extinguisher?

make sure its CO2 or dry powder for electrical

[rightsaidfred]

Thank you for the breakdown grendel, the main fact is that there use goes against the BA directive.

If 2 friends choose to disregard this and suffer any possible consequences that is up to them but in most cases it would mean involving another party possibly a hirer who do not understand either the risks or breach of BA conditions, this is totally irresponsible and should not be promoted on open forum.

Fred

[Meantime]

12 hours ago, ScrumpyCheddar said:

Nowt wrong with splitters.. We all use to share electric posts with splitters at Beccles  yacht station a few years ago and I still use my splitter and share with other boaters .. just a shame about the electric posts at Beccles  now ...

Anyway here’s a nice pic I took back 2016 when we could all split an share .

NB The is a historic photo and the NBN in no way supports or encourages this type of behaviour.

There are so many things wrong with that picture, you can see why the BA don't support their use. Whilst splitters are not illegal, they should be used correctly. 

The sockets on that post are designed to safely carry the weight of ONE commando plug and some cable. With the use of the splitter there are two additional sockets and two additional plugs hanging of each socket. Where is the strain relief. Those splitter cables should be used appropriately either with strain relief or placed on the ground if possible. It looks like it is not possible to close the post cover due to at least one of the splitters being in the way. I would bet that the weight of those splitters and cables is dragging each plug downwards to the point that it is only the latch on the Blue flap that is keeping the plugs in place.

If you look carefully at the post, it has space to install four sockets. Whoever designed the electrical installation  at Beccles yacht station decided that the post pictured could only support three sockets being installed for a reason. Possibly based upon overall infrastructure capacity based around the whole of the yacht station. As installed it can provide up to 48 amps through 3 outlets. With those two splitters there is now the potential to attempt unsuccessfully to try and draw 80 amps.

Then there is the breaker installed to protect each socket. The breakers main role is to protect the socket in the event of an abnormal high load or fault condition. It is not designed to routinely limit the amount of current that can be provided by that socket. If used properly the breaker should rarely if ever trip. Used with a splitter between two different boats with no knowledge of each others usage the breaker is likely to trip far too often. Splitters should really be used in installations where one person knows exactly what current load is being placed on each socket and where the total load is very unlikely to exceed the master sockets rated capacity.

[grendel]

after an extensive search the guidance for only connecting a single boat is referenced here

https://www.broads-authority.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0024/194505/Charging-points-2014.pdf,

which I can only find by a direct search as its currently not linked from their main website, it also references the types of meters that are no longer in use, and dates from 2014

the page linked from the website that contains the current information - https://www.broads-authority.gov.uk/boating/facilities/electric-boat-charging-points 

makes no mention of any restrictions on charge point usage, which does not mean there are no restrictions.

@BroadsAuthority can you give us any guidance on this issue of splitter cable usage?

Thanks

[Meantime]

3 minutes ago, grendel said:

makes no mention of any restrictions on charge point usage, which does not mean there are no restrictions.

Apart from the bit where it says

"You will also require a standard caravan hook up plug and cable."

[grendel]

1 minute ago, Meantime said:

Apart from the bit where it says

"You will also require a standard caravan hook up plug and cable."

hardly a cut and dried statement, as even without a splitter you would need a standard hookup cable, lets wait and see what answer the broads authority give us, I have flagged them in my previous post so they should get a notification.

then once we have an answer, we will all know.

[rightsaidfred]

1 hour ago, grendel said:

after an extensive search the guidance for only connecting a single boat is referenced here

https://www.broads-authority.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0024/194505/Charging-points-2014.pdf,

which I can only find by a direct search as its currently not linked from their main website, it also references the types of meters that are no longer in use, and dates from 2014

the page linked from the website that contains the current information - https://www.broads-authority.gov.uk/boating/facilities/electric-boat-charging-points 

makes no mention of any restrictions on charge point usage, which does not mean there are no restrictions.

@BroadsAuthority can you give us any guidance on this issue of splitter cable usage?

Thanks

We will have to wait then but the second one doesn't appear to supersede the first other than instruction on using the different card.

Fred

[ScrumpyCheddar]

So what’s the rule of using and extension hook up to make your standard hook up cable longer as most hire companies are normally about 10ft short ?? Is that against BAs rules ??.. 

[grendel]

well going by the original 2014 document that would be the case, but lets see what we get for an answer.

[annv]

There are people who think a 13amp sq pin plug and socket rapped in a plastic bag is a suitable extension lead for a boat even in a puddle when it rained over night, this often happens at the Waverny where they use the camp site posts. John

[CeePee1952]

8 hours ago, grendel said:

make sure its CO2 or dry powder for electrical

CO2 might be pretty useless in the open space but might work with no wind around! (next to a charging post) 

Chris

Edited May 10, 2022 by CeePee1952
insertion of "might be"