Tolls (that’s Not A Swear Word!) Amongst Other Things.

[ExSurveyor]

This is the chart that is interesting.

How about we go halves with the BA and settle on 5% and they find the same amount in savings

 

 

[catcouk]

33 minutes ago, rightsaidfred said:

No the only thing wrong there is that the Broads are not and never will be a  National Park, this alone highlightes the warped attitude of the CEO to the managment of the Area under their control.

Fred

I totally agree that the Navigation and 'National Park' stuff should be considered separate. It would solve a lot of arguments of they just had two separate organisations for each of their duties. One for Navigation and one for 'National Park's stuff.

[Paladin]

3 hours ago, CeePee1952 said:

Just had a read of that "paper" and I'm confused! Why is there such a difference (approx £23) in the charges per metre between a hired motor cruiser and a privately owned one? Surely a boat is a boat no matter whether it is a hire craft or private and like for like, will occupy the same amount of water?  I admit we don't own a boat and always hire and my knowledge of what determines the charges is virtually nil but it seems to me that the hire yards as well as private owners are getting ripped off!

Chris

2 hours ago, Bikertov said:

I would suggest it is because a hired craft is used probably 5 - 10 times more per annum than a privately owned craft, and for commercial gain ?

This is a potted history which covers the introduction and abolishment of the hire boat toll multiplier. The information is gleaned from a variety of Broads Authority reports.

The multiplier was first introduced in 1974, at the suggestion of the Broads Hire Boat Federation, to provide additional income to the Port and Haven Commissioners for the provision of extra facilities such as free moorings. It was originally set at 3x the private toll.

This morphed into a ‘charge linked to usage’. The rationale for the change was that hire boats used the Broads system more intensively than private boats and should, therefore, pay proportionately more towards its management.

That rationale then changed to “the direct economic benefit commercial operators derive from the Broads waterways should be used to justify higher tolls charges for the commercial fleet.”

Over recent years, the level of the multiplier has been reduced, as the hire companies plead poverty/difficult trading conditions and threatened to moth-ball parts of their fleets.

In 2011, the multiplier for weekly hired boats was still 3x private toll.

In 2013, the multiplier for weekly hired boats was reduced to 2.62x private toll.

In 2015, the multiplier for weekly hire boats was reduced from 2.62x to 2.55x private toll.

The major tolls review in 2016 found that “any reduction in the multiplier for hire boats would lead to a need to increase charges in the private fleet to offset the losses in income from the hire fleet.”

As a result of the review, there was a major change in the tolls mechanism. The multiplier was abolished and a system whereby different types of vessel in each fleet would be given independent costs per square metre was introduced.

[RS2021]

47 minutes ago, ExSurveyor said:

This is the chart that is interesting.

How about we go halves with the BA and settle on 5% and they find the same amount in savings

 

 

The chart which would be really interesting would be the one which shows the percentage reduction in toll revenue compared to the percentage increase in tolls (both adjusted for inflation). Could we ask the BA to produce it?

[rightsaidfred]

1 hour ago, catcouk said:

I totally agree that the Navigation and 'National Park' stuff should be considered separate. It would solve a lot of arguments of they just had two separate organisations for each of their duties. One for Navigation and one for 'National Park's stuff.

Sorry but you seem to have missed the point, there is no National Park stuff and the Broads are not a National Park, what you are referring to is the area covered by  Defra monies for the non navigation  responsabilities under the Broads Act.

Fred

[catcouk]

7 minutes ago, rightsaidfred said:

Sorry but you seem to have missed the point, there is no National Park stuff and the Broads are not a National Park, what you are referring to is the area covered by  Defra monies for the non navigation  responsabilities under the Broads Act.

Fred

I did put 'National Park' in inverted commas... It may not be a National Park proper but they sure seem to do a lot of 'National Park' stuff and they say that is what the DEFRA money is for. Are you saying that the DEFRA money is also supposed to be for Navigation? I genuinely don't know, hence my question.

[floydraser]

National park - here we go again, strap yourselves in everybody. Remember "Protect and Survive". Tape round all the doors, turn the settee over and hide underneath until you hear the all clear.....

Oh, panic buy baked beans and toilet rolls first! 

[rightsaidfred]

58 minutes ago, catcouk said:

I did put 'National Park' in inverted commas... It may not be a National Park proper but they sure seem to do a lot of 'National Park' stuff and they say that is what the DEFRA money is for. Are you saying that the DEFRA money is also supposed to be for Navigation? I genuinely don't know, hence my question.

Apologies  I missed the subtelty, Navigation is paid for from tolls, Other duties by Defra, there is sometimes an additional special grant from Defra, the last one was used mostly for equipment that benefited both Navigation and Conservation.

Fred

[grendel]

do they actually say that the shortfall in funding is on the navigation budget or whether its an overall shortfall, if its not on the navigation budget then it should not be funded from the river toll and should be achieved from other funding or savings elsewhere. they have already proved over the last few years extortional toll rises that the additional monies raised dont cure the shortfall, and added to that moorings have closed, further reducing their costs. so they are failing to maintain the nevigation properly anyway.

[rightsaidfred]

There is a shortfall of £394,000.00 through loss of boats, they are also anticipating a flat lining of the DEFRA monies.

Fred

[ExSurveyor]

26 minutes ago, rightsaidfred said:

There is a shortfall of £394,000.00 through loss of boats, they are also anticipating a flat lining of the DEFRA monies.

Fred

The shortfall is partly reduced boat numbers but also because of increased running / overhead costs.

From the paper they acknowledge that a 10 - 12% increase will be resisted by toll payers.

Time they realised that they too have to cut the fat the same as the rest of the country.

Just looking at the toll collection costs shows how inefficient the system is and that is without the large IT investment last year.

Collection of tolls and ICT total £440,000 in total, spit roughly 50/50 between the two.

[Ray]

I too was struck with how much it costs to collect tolls, there must be a better and more economical way to do this!

[Poppy]

4 hours ago, Ray said:

I too was struck with how much it costs to collect tolls, there must be a better and more economical way to do this!

I can pay my car tax, TV licence , gas and electricity bills along with many other outgoings simply and quickly on line,  whilst the BA make it unnecessarily complex.  We don't need the annual toll demand sent by post, Why not an email reminder?   Automating the system could surely at least halve the cost of collection .