Stalham On The Edge

[Turnoar]

https://www.edp24.co.uk/news/24156005.locals-fear-norfolk-town-dying-feet-amid-neglect/

Interesting article in the North Norfolk News, always seems quite busy when I pass through, and I’m sure some of the negative sentiment expressed could be said of any town. Still, plenty of offerings to tempt in the broads tourists: boatyards, museums, a cracking butchers, pubs, chemist etc.

I wonder if those pondering how to spend some more cash on the high street might consider changing the one way to the opposite direction and introducing free on street parking for 30 mins. I used to find it convenient to peel off the 149 and straight down the street to pop in wherever. Again increasingly fussy traffic arrangements seem to be the way everywhere these days.

[dom]

States the place is dying, yet pictures a stand-alone butcher's shop and independent hardware store. In my local area, we lost most small businesses like that 10-15 years ago. As I understand it, Nicholsons is getting a Morrisons Daily store soon, so there's obviously some support for investment. I know at least one local business has also just moved into larger premises.

The drug issues probably wouldn't have been so prominent in the days when Stalham had its own police station, but obviously it's far from alone losing that. There have however always been drug issues in surrounding areas, including Hoveton.

I think a lot of social issues in the area can probably be traced back to the appalling standard of education provided by the high school for many years. I only went for a couple of years, thankfully moving to Broadland High for the last couple - but, when I was there, kids basically did what they wanted in some lessons and bullied some weaker teachers into allowing them to skip any sort of meaningful education. I think a lot of kids left with woeful exam results, inevitably getting stuck locally and in low salaried employment.

 

[CambridgeCabby]

The rapid change over to online shopping which was fuelled by the covid pandemic , which IMO accelerated its growth by at least 20 years , means the High Street in thousands of towns and cities has changed forever .

We see an abundance of food outlets , charity shops , betting shops and pop up shops where once a household name traded , on every street corner in cities we see chain coffee shops the days of colourful vibrant streets with stores offering their wares have all but gone with a few niche streets reminding us of “the good old days”.

 

[kpnut]

High streets are now ‘service areas’ - eateries, hairdressers etc, the things you can’t easily do online. 

The ones that’ll be the most successful are the ones that embrace it fastest, attracting independent providers. With freeholders/councillors who are willing to keep rents/rates in line with the profits of such businesses. 
You never know, we may go back to the days of artisan shops: blacksmith and fancy wrought ironwork, chocolate maker, sewing lady etc etc. Wouldn’t that be nice?

[SwanR]

I went into Norwich yesterday. It was delightful. A walk by the river and up past the cathedral. Browsed a couple of clothes shops as I prefer to try things on before I buy them if I can. Then I loved looking round Castle Fine Art. Beautiful pieces that took my breath away by one artist in particular. You just can’t get that feeling online. Now I need £800 and a suitable space. 🤔 Then something from the bakery while I waited for the bus home … you can’t get that online either. 

[dom]

34 minutes ago, kpnut said:

You never know, we may go back to the days of artisan shops: blacksmith and fancy wrought ironwork, chocolate maker, sewing lady etc etc. Wouldn’t that be nice?

I was lucky to grow up in Wroxham with Eric Stevenson, one of the last of a long line of blacksmiths living at the bottom of my road. I suspect there's probably a fair bit of his handiwork around Wroxham and Hoveton and in surviving wooden broads boats. He also did a lot of work for churches and cathedrals, including wrought iron for Norwich Cathedral and Westminster Abbey. Aside of being a proper old craftsman, he was a lovely old boy and I can remember him teaching me and my sister how to craft a proper bow and arrows on one occasion.

[Wussername]

1 hour ago, kpnut said:

High streets are now ‘service areas’ - eateries, hairdressers etc, the things you can’t easily do online. 

The ones that’ll be the most successful are the ones that embrace it fastest, attracting independent providers. With freeholders/councillors who are willing to keep rents/rates in line with the profits of such businesses. 
You never know, we may go back to the days of artisan shops: blacksmith and fancy wrought ironwork, chocolate maker, sewing lady etc etc. Wouldn’t that be nice?

Norwich had a chocolate maker, Mackintoshes. We had shoe makers so many prestige's companies of world renown. A mustard maker, drink maker, Colmans.  Boulton and Pauls, Laurence and Scotts, a Port. Breweries, foundries, boat builders, boat hirers,, The Norwich Union Insurance Co Ltd . One of the key stones of our community of our   thriving community. 

Shops. Norwich was a magical place all those years ago. 

Now much of Norwich seems to be student accommodation. A shadow of its former self.

"You never know, we may go back to the days of artisan shops: blacksmith and fancy wrought ironwork, chocolate maker, sewing lady etc etc. Wouldn’t that be nice?"

It would be nice, Norwich as I used to know has gone. 

"You never know" It has gone, it will not, can not return and can never return.

I find this very sad.

 

[Turnoar]

2 hours ago, dom said:

I think a lot of social issues in the area can probably be traced back to the appalling standard of education provided by the high school for many years. I only went for a couple of years, thankfully....

 

2 years is time enough Dom, and two of us is enough to form an SHS alumni lol.

2 hours ago, CambridgeCabby said:

...on every street corner in cities we see chain coffee shops....

Agreed cc, but towns are catching up including in North Norfolk with at least one in North Walsham, Hoveton, Aylsham, Cromer... but not Stalham yet.

1 hour ago, kpnut said:

...back to the days of artisan shops: blacksmith and fancy wrought ironwork, chocolate maker, sewing lady etc etc. Wouldn’t that be nice?

I can vouch for the wrought iron worker in Moore’s yard, bucking the trend having been there for at least 30 years.

[kpnut]

All these artisans are still around, usually in little units on farms and yards etc. They can’t afford the high overheads of the high street. Hence it needs a mind shift for high streets to thrive. 
The smith at Woodbastwick is often open to pop in for a look-see. 

[Wussername]

45 minutes ago, kpnut said:

All these artisans are still around, usually in little units on farms and yards etc. They can’t afford the high overheads of the high street. Hence it needs a mind shift for high streets to thrive. 
The smith at Woodbastwick is often open to pop in for a look-see. 

I have never been there. Four miles away from where I live I feel somewhat ashamed that I have not made an effort. I need a weather vane, in the shape of a Norfolk trawler of years ago. In the shape of my Grandfathers trawler.

I will make a visit.

However I do have a concern with regard to those who influence and direct our destiny, with regard to the positions they hold in organisations  without it would seem accountability.

However not for me to judge. The artisans are so important. I understand that however they will always  contribute on the fringe of our society and do need support which is sadly lacking from those who seem not to have an awareness of their contribution to  our society. 

The derogation of that which we hold so dear with regard to our city, rivers, broads must surely need to be addressed and those responsible need to be made accountable.

 

 

[Ray]

Things change.... today's youngsters will one day miss how things are now! It's just the way of the world I'm afraid.

When we first visited Stalham it still had the wednesday market with an auctioneer walking from lot to lot laid out on the ground, loved it and miss it but I also used to think that a torch with different colour lenses that you could rotate through was high tech enough to be almost sci fi 😂

[dom]

2 hours ago, Wussername said:

Norwich had a chocolate maker, Mackintoshes.

When I was a kid, whenever we went into Norwich, we'd tend to park in Malthouse multi-storey car park (my sister and I often going to the now long closed Noverre cinema on Theatre Street for the Saturday matinee whilst my mum shopped). I can still remember the smell from the old chocolate factory as you approached down Chantry Road. My dad worked for the GPO and on one occasion went in to do some work, coming home with masses of rejected chocolate, which the workers were sick to death of eating.

2 hours ago, Wussername said:

The Norwich Union Insurance Co Ltd . One of the key stones of our community of our   thriving community.

After leaving the GPO, my dad became Norwich Union's Chief Telecomms Officer - in those days, they had their own internal mechnical telephone exchanges and my dad did a lot of the changeover to newer System X and Y digital systems. Several of my school friends also went to work for NU. It's very sad that they were eventually rebranded to Aviva when they merged with CGU, as I think NU's reputation gave Norwich a bit of national credibility.

 

[dom]

45 minutes ago, Ray said:

When we first visited Stalham it still had the wednesday market with an auctioneer walking from lot to lot laid out on the ground, loved it and miss it but I also used to think that a torch with different colour lenses that you could rotate through was high tech enough to be almost sci fi 😂

We used to be allowed out at lunch from Stalham High School some days (possibly just market day?) and I can remember going to the market to get a burger for lunch. It was great, but the noise and smells from the neighbouring abattoir was a bit off putting on days when the wind was wrong! A mate and I once bought an old 12v car battery powered lawn mower from the auction, which we stripped down to make an electric go-cart. I learnt what a coccyx injury is shortly afterwards.

[Mouldy]

Today’s shoppers are even deserting the shopping mall, which became so popular from the late seventies.  The one at Milton Keynes was still under construction when I first moved to the area in 1977, but proved an enormous success when it opened two years later, filled with branches of so many high street brands and ample free parking.  About twenty five years ago, they added the ‘new bit,’ with a large Debenhams taking a very large unit over several floors and a multi storey car park.

Its clearly lost some appeal, especially with the demise of so many high street stores:  C&A, Woolworth, BHS, Dickens and Jones, Mothercare, Debenhams, Top Shop, Top Man, Waterstones, The Electric Board, Virgin Records - the list goes on . . .  . .  . . . . and on.

It’s odd to see so many units empty now.  The rents are too high for many traders and parking charges imposed since it opened may also have impacted some trade.  I read a few weeks ago, that they are now planning to demolish part of the Lakeside Shopping Centre, near the Dartford Crossing.  Not so long ago, folk used to queue to exit the M25 to go there, so popular it quickly became.

We went to Norwich to do a little pre Christmas shopping and went into Castle Mall.  Relatively small by comparison to Milton Keynes and Lakeside, the number of empty units was shocking, but even the beautiful Arcade in Norwich has so few units occupied now, one wonders how long it will remain.

Perhaps, the change in shopping habits will see many of these large malls close down and businesses will return to the high street.  Is that wishful thinking?

[kpnut]

1 hour ago, Wussername said:

I have never been there. Four miles away from where I live I feel somewhat ashamed that I have not made an effort. I need a weather vane, in the shape of a Norfolk trawler of years ago. In the shape of my Grandfathers trawler.

I will make a visit.

He does make some lovely things. 
 

18 minutes ago, dom said:

My dad worked for the GPO and on one occasion went in to do some work, coming home with masses of rejected chocolate, which the workers were sick to death of eating.

Reminds me of a pig farm I worked on. We collected swill and one collection, every Thursday, was from the Barrett’s sweet factory in Crawley. Bars and bars and bars of misshapen pink and white nougat, along with misshapen and stuck together chocolate fish shapes.
As well as stuffing ourselves with the stuff, the swill had a very peculiar smell once cooked and the pigs went mad for it. Wonder what it did to the taste of the meat!

[dom]

2 hours ago, Turnoar said:

2 years is time enough Dom, and two of us is enough to form an SHS alumni lol.

When were you there?

[Turnoar]

44 minutes ago, dom said:

When were you there?

Until 1987, think I started in year two aka 1983 with the primary middle first school changeover malarkey, no gcse nonsense though, I was crewing the team, me and Jon, that came second in the Norfolk schools champs at Filby in 1986, awarded by Jim Searle who ran the base, got a photo somewhere...

[dom]

44 minutes ago, Turnoar said:

Until 1987, think I started in year two aka 1983 with the primary middle first school changeover malarkey, no gcse nonsense though, I was crewing the team, me and Jon, that came second in the Norfolk schools champs at Filby in 1986, awarded by Jim Searle who ran the base, got a photo somewhere...

I think you were probably one year above me in that case. I joined in year one with maybe a dozen other kids then the majority joined in year two. I'm sure I was in the first year to do GCSEs (but had moved to Broadland by then) and I think we left 1988. Only name I can remember from the year above was one of the Derisley sisters who lived opposite and half the school fancied!

[Turnoar]

Oh wow, you’re obviously wiser then me Dom, but I’d assumed you were older too though, yes Jo was in my year (the younger one...

Here’s me at the NSSA prize giving getting my hand crushed whilst Jon grabs the cup.

 

[dom]

We must have started at Stalham at the same time in that case - just with you going in a year above me.

Was that a Stalham school activity with the NSSA?

Jon looks vaguely familiar.

[Turnoar]

Yes, you must have missed out on the middle school muddle, year one was certainly a small cohort from what I remember.

Jon and I represented Stalham sailing his dads wayfarer, I think some used to go on a Thursday after school but we were members of Hickling and used to spend our weekends on the broad, dab hands at dealing with capsizes, getting masts out of mud etc., might have gone turtle if we’d had a mishap at Filby though...

[CeePee1952]

12 hours ago, Mouldy said:

 

We went to Norwich to do a little pre Christmas shopping and went into Castle Mall.

Crikey Malcolm!! That's a bit early for this year!  Careful , Gracie will be having heart palpitations when she reads that 

Chris

[Mouldy]

1 hour ago, CeePee1952 said:

Crikey Malcolm!! That's a bit early for this year!  Careful , Gracie will be having heart palpitations when she reads that 

Chris

Should have said last Christmas, but Gracie probably would have started to bloody sing it! 

[dom]

10 hours ago, Turnoar said:

Jon and I represented Stalham sailing his dads wayfarer, I think some used to go on a Thursday after school but we were members of Hickling and used to spend our weekends on the broad, dab hands at dealing with capsizes, getting masts out of mud etc., might have gone turtle if we’d had a mishap at Filby though...

Somehow I never got fully into dinghy sailing, which is surprising, as one of my uncles was heavily involved in a lot of classes and was, amongst other things, responsible for approving the later Morrison Wayfarer design. He was one of the early pioneers of metal mast technology, joined up with Ian Proctor to develop them and ran Proctor Masts for many years. Ironically, he and Proctor (who sailed together extensively) were also very closely acquainted with Jack Chippendale, who I got to know in his days at Wroxham Barns.

I only ever saw my uncle at Earls Court boat shows, but I suspect if things had carried on as they were, I'd eventually have ended up joining him on the Hamble for a sail - he was later a director of the RYA and Olympic team manager, so it could have opened the door on all sorts of adventures but, sadly, my dad died young and I lost touch with that part of the family. With the benefit of hindsight, I should have gone to Southampton Uni, as my dad's life policy would have paid my costs and I could have spent all my free time on the water - but no-one had the sense to point that out to me at the time

[TheQ]

On 10/03/2024 at 17:07, Turnoar said:

2 years is time enough Dom, and two of us is enough to form an SHS alumni lol.

Agreed cc, but towns are catching up including in North Norfolk with at least one in North Walsham, Hoveton, Aylsham, Cromer... but not Stalham yet.

I can vouch for the wrought iron worker in Moore’s yard, bucking the trend having been there for at least 30 years.

Saw Rob Turner the wrought Iron workers van today, I've got a pedestrian gate by him still perfect after 20years..