Buying a Boat

[Gracie]

Hello All

 

We are thinking of buying a Birchwood 25 which is moored on the Medway at Wateringbury, i'ts what I think you guys would call a project Boat and needs a lot doing to it.

 

We have been told the engine is in very good condition and the rest of the Boat is just cosmetic, my husband and a friend are capable of doing the work but I am a little nervous as I need to know what to look for and what questions to ask before we part with any money.

 

Weather permitting we are going to view her on Sunday, it would be ideal for us to use at weekends but still have main holidays on the Broads.

 

She has a new Canopy and original gel coat and was built in 1978, we saw her a couple of weeks ago and she looks good to me but I'm just thinking about the pretty thinks like curtains and cushions lol, If we go on Sunday it would be great if it looked like we knew what we were talking about and that's where you guys come in.

 

Was'nt sure where to post this, hope it's in the right place

 

Grace

[mbird]

Hi Grace

It really depends on you collective experience with boats, but I think I would recommend a survey being done. This will cost a fair bit of cash unfortunately, but could save you a whole heap in the long run. I guess it's all down to the actual price of the boat and your attitude to taking a bit of a gamble.

For example, you could end up spending £500+ on a survey and lift, but saving yourself the heartache of buying a boat with a delaminated hull which is extremely expensive to put right. On the other hand, you could save the survey cost and buy a great little boat to do up.

[Gracie]

Hi mbird

 

The only experience I have of Boats is holidaying on them I'm afraid but just been told by hubby that she has had a safety certificate and full survey done recently. The owner feels it's too much to take on now as he is not very well and just want's a quick sale.

 

All the documents are available apparently, hopefully as you say it may be a great little Boat to do up but just apprehensive of taking that final step. I really want you lot to tell me to take that gamble and go ahead, so on your heads be it lol.

 

Gtace

[JawsOrca]

Hi Gracie,

 

As the guys above mentioned, you should get a survey . Although from experience, surveyours can't check everything and don't! The boat needs to be out the water for this and you can try and get it removed as part of the deal. My rule is though I don't get surveys done unless the purchase price is over £6k but we tend to look over the boat thoroughly and get boats for pennies really.  Although if theres a survey in place already and its recent then theres probably not much that can wrong (although wateringbury has obviously just experienced severe flooding and I understand is in flood at the moment). So you may still want to check her out of the water. 

 

The main things to look on the boat is.... Damage to gel coat (painting is hard work). Damage to hull (even harder!). Decent engine (although its hard work to check and surveyors wont check for you) thats the main risk (a new engine can be about £5k). Engine beds are a pain to replace.. Cushions are expensive to replace to. Bits and bobs are hard!

 

How much is the boat up for? have you got a link to the dealer?.. I would like to say we can come look for you but we are busy working.

 

As you may notice from our project, every project we get takes about 13 months and that's two of us every weekend and 20 days holidays but these are big projects, but still be prepared not to see your husband for a few weekends! and put some money aside... 

 

I'm not sure I would tell anyone to get a boat unless;  you really want it.. you have money (don't forget it will cost you about £150 a month) and its hard to sell boats if you don't like it. A project boat is even more stress. 

[Gracie]

i'ts a private sale through a friend of a friend and a very nice gentleman, He's asking £4000, also taken into account Marina costs and realise we will be completely broke if we decide to buy haha. 

 

I am prepared to roll up my sleeves and get stuck in so not seeing Husband won't be an issue.

 

Also she is on a floating pontoon so hopefully ok in the floods.

 

Thankyou so much for great advice, to be honest i think my husband has his heart set on buying her and so have I to be honest, just great to have such knowledgeable people on here to run through things with.

 

Grace

[JawsOrca]

£4000 seems OK for these, I've seen for a lot less. 

 

I almost brought one a few years back but didnt quite have the funds for it.

 

I think these normally have petrol engines too which you may have problems on the broads as supplies are limited (and even on the medway I doubt there's many places.. steve at wateringbury may have though).. I even think some of these had big v8 petrols which is even more scary on fuel consumption so maybe check what engine it has.. You ideally want a little diesel less than 50hp engine for the rivers. 

 

I would also advise that you never buy the first boat (although I've never stuck to that!) as there will be better deals out there and its fun to look! Maybe try and look and don't buy.. certainly don't buy without inspecting out of the water.

 

Good luck

[Liberty]

As above - survey.  

 

Everything connected with boats costs a bomb - even paint and varnish is expensive, let alone decent timber for the interior, upholstery etc etc.  

 

I abandoned and sold a project boat a few years ago once I took my rose-tinted glasses off and priced the whole thing piece by piece.  I then went and bought a boat all done - worked out cheaper, better finished and it's nice to be out afloat instead of sanding and painting etc etc.  

 

Tinkering and faffing is fine - good fun and rewarding, but I would never have another project boat.

 

That said, if you do go for it: good luck and enjoy it hugely

[Gracie]

Must admit we have been looking at Boats for sale along the Medway for sometime and just toying with the idea, but now this one has come up and it's become a reality, the chap that's selling her has said he will accept an offer and that she is good to go and can be used for what she was intended while doing her up.

 

Showed my husband this and he is going to have her lifted when possible (damn weather) before we go ahead so thank you again.

 

Hopefully when we have a good look it really is just tidying up to be done, if it's a major refurb needed then we probably won't go for it and just keep looking.

 

It's a diesel engine by the way.

 

Grace

[Mowjo]

Grace! what do you actually mean she needs a lot doing to her??? New cushions can work out expensive, can you just get away with new covers, Curtains, if you have some on there you can use them as patterns for new ones, I bought a second hand sewing machine and have made my own on the last five boats, all my fabric for curtains and cushions has come from E/bay, depending on Hubby's DIY skills it's not that hard to rebuild things like cupboards and stuff, I know some people will tell you everything is expensive doing a boat up, it will be if you get others in to do it, I've completely re-furbished the insides of my last three boats and none have cost me more than a few hundred pounds, the expensive stuff is things like cookers and fridges, your looking at between £600 and £1000 to replace them with anything half decent, to be honest I'm not sure on surveys after a friend had one done, and after it was done I picked up several things that the surveyor had missed, I think they are like MOT's only valid until the tester is out of sight, if you think you can trust the seller why not just ask someone at the marina who knows about boats to look her over for you, it's all basic stuff. I know some will disagree with what I'm saying here, but you have the basics like a newish canopy, original Gelcoat that maybe could be re-polished  or worse way painted, to do the rest you'll need to do a lot of searching on the Net for the best prices for stuff you need, but that time can save you a fortune, I don't claim to be an expert by any means, just a competent DIYer, but I've sold my last five boats at a profit, the one thing I have learnt is think about things before you start ripping them out, you'll be supprised at the things that can be repaired or made to look like new again,,,

 

Frank,,,

[Gracie]

Maybe I was wrong in saying it's a project Boat, I believe she has curtains, carpets, cooker etc and just needs s spruce up, not entirely sure until we view her properly. Not very good with needle and thread but have a friend who has a sewing machine, so will keep all this in mind when viewing her, thank you Mowjo.

 

Just to add my brother in law is a carpenter, he's suddenly going to become the best brother in law iv'e

ever had lol.

 

Grace

[littlesprite]

Hi Gracie,

At £4000 I think I'd take a chance and not bother with a survey (personal choice) but just have a thorough look myself. When looking make sure to view the inside of the hull for damage as most people do a good job outside but forget to tidy the inside, go for a test drive and run the engine at varying speeds whilst carrying out manoeuvres to ensure the handling of the boat suites you. Switch on lights, radio, other electrical gadgets at the same time and challenge the batteries and system, if possible get someone (gas safe) to check the gas system.

Make them an offer of £3000 and go up from there as required.

 

Enjoy.

[Mowjo]

Me again Grace! I forgot to mention! one of the first things I do is lift the engine bay floor and look at the bilges and engine, if it's clean and the engine is fairly clean it's usually a good indicator that the previous owner has probably looked after it, though still worth having someone check it, also think about the toilet, is it a sea toilet, porta potty or pump out type, I ask because a lot of people I know have bought boats off the Broads only to decide to move them to the Broads at a later date, and as the sea toilets aren't allowed on the Broads having them converted to a pump out type can be expensive unless you can put up with a porta potty type,,,,, Plus I agree with everything Martin has said, unless you can see major damage or the engine is cream crackered it sounds like your on a winner,,

 

 

Frank,,,

[Gracie]

I think it's got a toilet compartment but not sue about an actual toilet, when we are able to view her i will bear all this brilliant advice in mind, am making a list as we speak.

 

The weather here is appalling so probably won't even get into the Marina to view her but will let you know the outcome when we are able to.

 

Can't thank you all enough, you have certainly given us things to think about and Littlesprite can I take you with me to do the haggling lol.

 

Grace

[littlesprite]

Grace,

I won't guarantee you will get it at £3000 but equally the guy selling probably isn't expecting £4000, the lower your starting offer the more room for movement.

[Brian J.]

So you buy he boat.  Now comes the ongoing expenditure, 

 

Mooring fees,  these can be as little as £300.00 a year for a mooring with absolutely no facilities up to as much as £2750.00 for a good mooring with electric hook up, water point  and security with floating pontoons and lockable marina entrance,

 

Insurance, anything from £100.00 to £300.00.

 

Maintenance, about £350.00 for engine service and winterising

 

Cost of fuel for cruising and for travel to and from the boat.

 

As you can see, annual costs can mount up, so the price of the boat is not neccasarily the most expensive item

 

Enjoy!!!

[Mowjo]

Good advice from Martin Grace! this time of year is a bit of a buyers market so there are some very good deals to be had, with luck he'll sell lower rather than wait until things pick up, then he's runs the risk that if it doesn't sell he'll have to pay a years mooring fees, insurance, and I presume some sort of river tax, that could mean £1000 or more he'll have to pay out, make sure you let him know your interested but a have other boats to look at, don't forget the Mmmmm! it's going to cost a lot to have those cushions replaced and anything else you can think of, once he knows your interested but have others to look at it may just spur him into the sale in case you go elsewhere, my Wife does this, I let her do all the haggling she's an expert, I stand in the background going I do like it but! my Seamaster 813 was on sale for 11k, she haggled it down and we got it for 8k, the Freeman 23 was on for 11k she got that for 8.5k, and the Hampton 25 we have now was on for 16k she got that for 13k, so if you love the boat don't let the seller know , throw in a few Erms, not sures and that'll be expensives, and the money you save will pay for all the bits you want to do on it,,

 

And Brian is right! I don't know about mooring fees on the Medway, but I worked out it cost me just under £40 per week or 2k a year to keep my Hampton 25 on the Broads, may sound a lot but I have the use of it 52 weeks of the year , so for me that's a couple of weeks away abroad or a couple of weeks hiring a boat,,

Frank,,,,

[Gracie]

Wow! your're a bundle of laughs (only joking), but yes we are considering all the costs, and you are so right the buying of the Boat seems to be the cheapest bit.We have such a love of Boats that I can't see us not doing it, just not sure if it's this particular Boat yet. 

 

Grace

[Gracie]

Sorry, the last post from me was mean't for Brian j, we must have been typing at the same time Mowjo.

 

Well I am shocked, what a devious bunch you are lol. Seriously though great tips

 

Grace

[Mowjo]

You'll know if it's the right one for you Grace! it's a bit like houses you seem to know within minutes if you'll love it or hate it, my daughter asked me to find her a boat, so the wife and me set out, found a few that she could afford, a few were ready to go and only needed minor stuff doing, but no she feel in love with the one I wouldn't touch, it did and still does need a lot of work and money spent to bring it up to what I call normal standard, she paid 10k for it and so far she has spent 2k on just the cooker, fridge, toilet, and me re-furbishing the front cabin, it still needs about another 2k spend finishing everything else off and painting it, at the end of it she will still only have a boat worth 12k, but she doesn't care because she loves the boat, and you'll find once you own your own boat, the cost of running it tends to go to the back of your mind because the enjoyment outweighs the cost,,,

[Soundings]

the cost of running it tends to go to the back of your mind because the enjoyment outweighs the cost,,,

 

So true Mowjo

[Palmtree]

Hi,

 

The insurance company might depending on the age of the boat want a survey done.

 

However as it has had a survey done recently this might be ok. The insurance company could also require any reccomendations made in the survey actioned as part of the cover.

 

Ian

[puddlejumper]

The survey was commissioned by the seller? get your own and at the same time a valuation needed for insurance purposes and how long if any the Bss cert etc you could be saving a small fortune on the asking price as any defects could be price negotiable. Good luck

Craig

[ranworthbreeze]

Hello Grace,

I know very little about the Birchwood 25.

I suggest that you join the Birchwood Boat Owners forum, http://birchwoodboatowners.myfreeforum.org

There is advice and topics regarding repairs, projects etc which you may find helpful.

Regards

Alan

[MBA Marine]

Birchwood 25, is a good easy boat to work on, loads of space around the engine and to the rear of it.  If the engine is happy then the rest you can do at your leisure, being a petrol change plugs every year with the oil and filters and keep HT leads and distributor in good order and it will stay happy, water tank is most likely a bag up fwd this might need replacing. Light the hob if you have a erratic, tall yellow flame it might be time for a shiny new one and thats a quick way to spend £400.

I would not survey, that money could go towards the cooker! 

[Gracie]

Hello All

 

Thank you all so so much  you have given us plenty to think about, have made a list to take with me.

 

Unfortunately cannot go this weekend due to the floods but will let you know what we decide when we can get down there 

 

Grace