New Headlining

[LadyPatricia]

Hi all,

We are looking at different headlining for the cabin area on Lady Patricia. The question is should we go for foam backed or plain? What are the advantages / disadvantages of these?

We will be replacing the boards that the current lining is on as well. What should we treat the new panels with?

Thanks in advance

Steve & Deb

[JawsOrca]

Hi guys,

 

So we went with foam backed for a couple of reasons, mainly the little bit of foam provides an extra bit of insulation. I think it also looks nice (I know it's slightly outdated now perhaps but I still like it.. it also feels nice if you hit your head on it!). I found that its also easier to install than non foam backed because it gives you a 3mm or so margin for error (If your boards are a bit badly cut small  

 

Disadvantages, of foamed you really will need use the right glue as to ensure it stays up.. I can't recommend hawke house enough as they have glue made for them and for this purpose. You may hear rumours that the foam breaks down and falls apart which it does, although the new stuff (From hawke house, toomer and Hayter) should last at least 10 years which is more than enough! Non foamed it may show up air bubbles easier though so it will be harder to cover the boards compared to foamed

 

As for the boards, we protected the backs with (http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Painting+Decorating/d150/Exterior+Wood+Care/sd3176/Lumberjack+Triple+Action+Wood+Treatment/p34502).. an alternative would be 2pac epoxy (which we have used on the bulkheads) or a good non-waterbased paint).

 

You may find HH headlining fixing guide helpful (http://www.hawkehouse.co.uk/headlining-fitting-guide).  Make sure you use stainless steel staples too.

 

If you don't choose to go with foamed headlining can I suggest you go with a felt type material which is what most modern builders seem to be doing and looks lovely!

 

Good luck, it's a nice easy job if you have the boards already.

[Mowjo]

Steve! all I can say is on my new/old boat which had the foam backed one, all the foam has degraded and had turned to powder, personally I hate both as neither let the boat breath and any water that gets behind it stays trapped and causes mould or accelerates rot, I know it's used on many boats so it's my personal taste but the first thing I did when I got my new/old boat was rip it all out and replace it with varnished ply,

 

Frank,,,,

[LadyPatricia]

Thanks for the input guys,

We will look at the HH site later Alan, I do recall you singing their praises in a few previous posts I have read.

I also did see the great job you did with your boat Frank. The roof looked really smart. Does it not lose a bit of warmth through it in the colder months with no lining though?

Steve

[MauriceMynah]

I thought the thread title meant something along the lines of...

 

Sir Clive Richardson ate my boat.

 

Well it would have made a good article!

[C.Ricko]

 I don't think I could eat a whole boat perhaps the contents of a gravy boat..

 

Still waiting for the knighthood though 

[Mowjo]

Steve! so far I've replaced the ceilings on all of my boats using the varnished ply, I've never had any problems with it, you can get a bit of very light condensation when cooking, but thats it! we have never noticed it making the boat any colder and we use ours all year, on my son in laws boat when I did that for him I managed to fit 1inch polystyrene foam between the roof bearers as he wanted it, I didn't like the idea as it can't breath to dry out, some even fit that shinny radiator foil for the bit extra insulation, all I did on mine as I had no roof bearers, was when I fitted some to the ceiling I left a 1 inch gap in each one near the front and back so the air could circulate a little bit, I wouldn't think that the 1/8inch foam on the vinyl would make in any warmer than I have on mine now, personally I find Vinyl holds the cold more than wood or at least it feels like it to me, the whole inside of the new/old boat was covered with cream foam back vinyl about a week after getting it the weather turned and when we got to the boat the ceiling was dripping with water, but I think part of that was because there were no vents in the boat,, 

 

Frank,,,,

[Oddfellow]

I think you'd find that the U value of the 3mm foam insulation would be near zilch. 

[MauriceMynah]

Clive,

Offer Her Majesty a really good deal on one of your larger boats for a family holiday. Either the knighthood will be "in the bag" or she'll never speak to you again.

[MBA Marine]

Without foam gives a really flat crisp finish and looks great IF done properly, the boards do have to be cut perfectly all the edges sanded so there are no sharp, splintery bits.

Foam is more forgiving, gives you more insulation and looks good, my preference is non foam looks nicer but foam is more practical.

Also there is a little trick to cutting the material on the corners so that you dont get a thick lump of material behind every corner nor risk the material being slightly open at the tip of the corner.

 

Start with good quality rigid ply, some starts its life overly flexible with loads of warps, I would coat in turps and yacht varnish mixed at 50/50,  you will find it really soaks in an dries quickly, dont just seal the back edge give the whole board and edges a wash.

[LadyPatricia]

Ok, bit of an update,

We've been and taken down the headlining in the cabin. The old lining was fixed to 4mm ply.

We had a brief conversation with Alan (JawsOrca) when we met him the other week and got some really good advice and information, thank you Alan

The old panels were screwed in to the fibreglass roof. Having seen what it is like behind the headliner now I'm thinking the best way to put the new panels up would be with strong Velcro strips. Any advice or thoughts?

Originally she was fitted with 2 long panels running the full length of the cabin, We intend to make 4 panels instead of 2 for ease of fitting and removing if required. Can any suggest a place I can get the 'wood trim' to cover the joins in the 4 sections?

Attached a couple of pics to show the cabin roof.

Steve & Deb

[Oddfellow]

If you simply want some thin wood mouldings, then B&Q is as easy as anywhere for these things.

 

If you want to conceal the fixings, the Heavy Duty Velcro stuff will be fine, but if you are then intending to attach a wooden cover strip to hide the joins, how are you going to fix this? Screws are the only real choice and that kinda defeats concealing the main fixings.

 

You could use velcro again, but this will cause the cover strip to stand off the ceiling by a noticeable distance and look pants.

[JawsOrca]

Geez Steve that looks fun.

 

I'm not sure velcro would hold up to be honest (although Hawke house suggested it and your timbers there are quite smooth so maybe worth a try).. Failing that as i suggested.. screw right up then edge and put a timber battern up (B&Q, homebase although they seem have stopped selling the dark hardwoods anymore (may still have stock) if not any timber yard can machine them up (I've got a load in the garage though if you are passing again??).. we screwed up with brass screws.. didn't look brilliant but it looks traditional!).. failing that use the buttons we done.. quick easy looks neat enough.

 

(couple of pics attached showing how we did the lining on our first project boat (I think you can just see the headlining).. we should never had sold her!)

 

[LondonRascal]

II apologise for my drawing skills here using 'Paint' but...This is how I have seen some boats finished as to headlining.

 

 

Personally I like the idea of the insert strips to stand away from the surrounding vinyl covered ply panel by a few millimetres which would then allow L.E.D light strips in the small gap between panel and cabin roof to ‘glow through’ in the evening..

 

I rather like the idea myself of using Vinyl to cover the cabin headlining then using Suede or Velvet (maybe cream colour but could be something like a rich purple for flare) for the cabin sides such as around window frames.

 

I’d also have Acrylic inserts to certain bulkheads - etched with geometric patterns or even the name of the boat or a ‘boat logo’ that one could choose, lit from above with a colloured L.E.D lights – The pattern being matt would light up and the clear Acrylic would just being gently coloured with the light (see example below).

 

 

 

[LadyPatricia]

I see what you mean Robin, a little like a threshold joining two floor coverings in a doorway. Definately something to consider.

I'd love to go all out with LED lights and strips but Deb would go mad. I may write to MTV and see if they will pay to have all the latest flashing lights and gadgets on the boat ...... They could call it "Pimp My Norman"

Steve

[MBA Marine]

Back in my day (as i aint the foggiest how the do it now) all headlining in Oyster yachts was panels fixed up to battens with velcro or hook and loop fasteners to avoid a brand name. One does need to staple it on though, don't go thinking self adhesive is going to do the job!!

[Oddfellow]

Robin has some nice ideas there, similar to many of my own ideas for lighting, which in too many boats is just woeful (either too bright or too dim, rarely just right). This is why we fitted Lady of Freedom with inset LED lights in individually switchable groups and put under-pelmet lighting in Song of Freedom.

 

You have to be careful with side linings as the GRP is never smooth enough to permit the fitting of anything other than a lining carpet to be applied without showing up the imperfections through the cloth. The solution is to put some 1/2 foam, adhered to the GRP under the fabric to smooth out the problems or to line a 6mm sheet of ply. The key problem with much of this is cost and wastage; those windows require a lot of fabric to be cut away. If you are handy with a dedent sewing machine, you would be able to stitch a good quality upholstery fabric together to reduce this wastage.

[LadyPatricia]

Just a quick update,

We used two old boards from the cabin as a template to cut the new ones. The only issue was we had to cut the old old one before we left the marina to fit them in the van to get them home. 2 x 8ft long panels were not going to fit in my caddy

Having got them home we ordered some WBP ply and got to work cutting them out. Once done we returned to the boat on our next weekend off to fix the plain panels up just to see if they fitted ok. With a little bit of trimming here and there we got all panels up (see pic)

Next we chose and ordered the headlining. We went to Hawke House on the recommendation of Alan (JawsOrca) and I must say what a helpful team they have down there, all my question about this little project were answered.

At the moment our living room resembles a workshop as I've started to cover the panels. A pic of my very first attempt is attached both front and back. We went for foam backed lining and my fingertips are suffering from peeling off the foam around the edges

Our plan is to head up to the marina next weekend and fit all the panels and the trim so I better get on and cover the other 7 panels


Steve

[BroadScot]

Who's a clever boy then? Your doing fine Steve.

 

 

Iain.

[LadyPatricia]

All 8 panels are now covered and ready to go up to the boat this weekend and be fitted. I even got a little adventurous and covered the battens that hold the cushions in place on the seats either side of the table. If i bang my knee now it shouldn't hurt

We will take some pics, assuming all goes ok and post when done

Steve

[ranworthbreeze]

Well done Steve.

It looks a good job and looking forward to the end results.

 

You could have course have  padded your knees, but I think you have gone for the better option  

Regards

Alan

[LadyPatricia]

Morning all,

Ok the weekend trip to the boat didn't go exactly to plan. We arrived early sat morning with enthusiasm and excitement. The plan was to clean all the carpet on the boat with foaming carpet cleaner, put up new headlining and check to see if Debs curtains fitted.

The first couple of hours were taken up cleaning the lining carpet, it came up ok but really needs replacing as when we were working in the foam the fibres were just coming off like dust. We will get that replaced at the end of the year, it will have to do for this season.

Next job was to fit the new boards and headlining. 3 of the 4 panels in the main cabin and the ones in the entrance and toilet went up reasonably easily to my surprise but when we got the 4th panel for the cabin out of the car it had been damaged in transit. A small tear near the hole for the cables to the light had happened on the journey up. Unfortunately not close enough to the hole to be covered when the light was fitted

We also decided not to use the trim we had taken as it just didn't 'look right' when it was up. We discussed options and will take up some beading timber and fit that on our next visit.

On the plus side the curtains Deb made fitted perfectly so she was a very happy bunny

A few pics of what we eventually got done

[MauriceMynah]

Steve/Deb

The stripey curtain material is the same as I had on my last boat. Where did you get it, I rather liked it and would like to have it on my current one.

[LadyPatricia]

Will check with Deb when I get home MM and let you know She got the lining material from same place

[JawsOrca]

Hi Steve,

 

Sorry to hear about the carpet cleaner and the damage on the way up to the panel.. That's always the trouble when you fabricate away from the boat The panels you have put up though look really good though! 

 

For the gap you may want to try and cover your batten with the same headlining material (with or without the foam) see what that looks like.. I also found if you have a gap you can roll some headlining material up and jam that in there (easy botch but looks ok lol!).

 

Curtains look good too so well done to debs!

 

We will have a look at your carpet when we are up there next month (ouch .. next month  ) lol