Aground, rescue and thanks!

[Samuel]

Had a lovely sail today only slightly marred by managing to run aground on the Waveney downriver from St Olaves. Not for the first time but this time we were stuck fast. Fortunately only one hour before low tide and neaps so we hopefully would not have developed too much of a list but would have had a long wait before floating off. But a passing veteran wooden motor boat using great skill towed us off. This procedure was clearly new to his one crew member but she too played an important role. In the excitement I didn't notice the boat's name but if they read this or someone who knows them does, thanks, thanks, thanks, thanks and more thanks................

[JennyMorgan]

Helping hands, the Broads at its best!

[650xs]

what a nice simple little tale ....loki  liokor like....ohh like........got it at last............

[JawsOrca]

If anyone (sail, motor, Dinghy) needs a hand/tow and i'm there just shout/wave (PMR 4 (when i work out how to use it .. V8vogue I'll be PM'ing you shortly!!) or VHF 77).. I'm more than happy to help..

 

Although I would find it rude to ask a sail boat if they aren't making progress if they need a hand so I probably wouldn't ask... Should I ask?  

 

Good to hear you got unstuck safely though. 

 

[JennyMorgan]

Alan, common practice for ages has been that if a sailing boat needs a tow the skipper will simply hold a looped rope up in the air. On the other hand a motor boat might well slow down and ask, or simply be available to be asked. I wouldn't ask a boat that is obviously racing though, they do tend to get uppity!

 

If you see a mobo gently rocking against the reeds then, to avoid any blushes, I think it would be prudent not to offer any assistance.

[CaptinDread]

I offered a saily a tow yesterday as it looked like he was stuck on the bottom at barton broad, I think he managed to free himself.

[Poppy]

 

 

Although I would find it rude to ask a sail boat if they aren't making progress if they need a hand so I probably wouldn't ask... Should I ask?  

 

 

 

 

Proveded said 'Saily' isn't head to wind in the reeds and himself ( or herself ) is on the foredeck hoisting or lowering sail, I think hardly any would be offended. If however assistance was offered in the situation described, the first thought  that would come to mind is 'what a d**k! '.  It  did to me when a BA ranger offered help...... :shocked

[Paladin]

Sorry, I must disagree. Last Wednesday, when it was blowing a hooley, I came across a Hunter's cruiser in just that position, head-to-wind in the reeds, lowering their sails. They even had their mudweight down. I shouted across to them, but their reply was lost in the wind. I went around and called to them again and yes they wanted (needed) assistance. By the time I had gone round again, to try to pick them up, they had been blown, mudweight and all, across to the lee bank. I took them alongside and back to Hunter's.

 

If anyone thought I was a d**k for offering assistance, it certainly wasn't the crew of that cruiser.

[BroadAmbition]

I've pulled off and helped quite a few rag-n-sticks - they are always grateful and I'm happy to assist

 

 

Griff

[Poppy]

Sorry, I must disagree. Last Wednesday, when it was blowing a hooley, I came across a Hunter's cruiser in just that position, head-to-wind in the reeds, lowering their sails. They even had their mudweight down. I shouted across to them, but their reply was lost in the wind. I went around and called to them again and yes they wanted (needed) assistance. By the time I had gone round again, to try to pick them up, they had been blown, mudweight and all, across to the lee bank. I took them alongside and back to Hunter's.

 

If anyone thought I was a d**k for offering assistance, it certainly wasn't the crew of that cruiser.

 

Different circumstances - different boats.  I too would have offered help in that situation. 

However, the wind on the day to which I refer was a gentle F2, and my engine was gently chugging away holding us in place.

 

The pint I was making is that many can not be expected to know, whilst others damned well should !.  After all isn't that part of what they are paid for?

[Paladin]

Different circumstances - different boats.  I too would have offered help in that situation. 

However, the wind on the day to which I refer was a gentle F2, and my engine was gently chugging away holding us in place.

 

The pint I was making is that many can not be expected to know, whilst others damned well should !.  After all isn't that part of what they are paid for?

Part of the rangers' remit is to promote safety. But they are not paid to be psychic. Until they ask, the ranger, or any other passer-by, cannot be certain of your circumstances. You may be just pausing to have a cuppa, or a member of your crew may have become unwell and you are too concerned sorting them out to notice, just at that moment, that help is at hand.

 

If I have any doubt whatsoever, I have hailed, and always will hail, another vessel, motorised or not, that could possibly need assistance. A polite enquiry, followed by a polite response, costs nothing. Labelling someone, who is so concerned and responsible, as a 'd**k' does nothing to foster good relations between boaters, of whatever flavour.

[JennyMorgan]

I've even been known to tow mobos back to Oulton Broad, under sail, albeit slowly but nevertheless the owners have all been grateful.

[RumPunch]

I have been grateful to accept a tow though a dead spot upriver, trying to get back to Hickling one evening in a dinghy. Just a couple of hundred yards, but it made all the difference - I'd been there about an hour and got nowhere !

 

There were two river cruisers went by a few minutes apart. I stubbonly declined the first ones offer, then wised up and accepted the second.

[Poppy]

Part of the rangers' remit is to promote safety.

 

 

A polite enquiry, followed by a polite response, costs nothing. Labelling someone, who is so concerned and responsible, as a 'd**k' does nothing to foster good relations between boaters, of whatever flavour.

 

The Ranger was clearly mystified that I needed no help. My point is simply that with one person seated in the cockpit and another calmly going about their business there was no case. In fact, I thought I was about to get a bo*****ing for 'damaging the reeds.'

Is it unreasonable to expect somebody who is tasked 'to promote safety.' to have a rudimentary (at least) understanding of what those boats with big sticks and white flappy things do? 

To be fair, this was early in the summer of the year that all Rangers had to 'reapply' for their jobs, and the policy was that 50% of the jobs went to those previous employed as 'Countryside ' rangers, most of whom had

"only been on a boat to get to their place of work"  (quote from a 'River Ranger ' at the time.)

[JennyMorgan]

I have to agree with Poppy on this one. I do expect a Ranger to be familiar with boats and the people who use them. Granted that in the interests of devaluing boating Countryside Rangers are expected to operate the BA's launches but that should be no excuse for not understanding the boating environment & its community. 

[Baitrunner]

I'm with Paladin on this.

 

Whatever the vessel/situation why would you be upset if someone asks are you OK. do you need help? The answer - no I'm fine but thanks for asking - all very polite. Situations and how people handle them always vary.

 

Next time you might need some help and you get ignored I assume you will moan that no one offers any help?

 

Reading this now I am thinking - will I be a dick head if I ask or an **** for ignoring you? Cant win.

 

It's like offering to help take a rope when people are mooring. A very competent crew that can handle all situations wont need help - How do I know? Maybe because it's a private boat we assume they are all experts? We all know otherwise.

 

Offering help should not cause offence and be taken in the manner in which it is offered - friendly.

[smellyloo]

It's like offering to help take a rope when people are mooring. A very competent crew that can handle all situations wont need help - How do I know? Maybe because it's a private boat we assume they are all experts? We all know otherwise.

 

Offering help should not cause offence and be taken in the manner in which it is offered - friendly.

Also, please don't be offended if your kind offer to take a rope is refused .... a competent crew will be reluctant to hand over control to a stranger .... particularly in tricky tide/wind conditions.

[JennyMorgan]

I have never taken offence at being asked if I needed help, why should I? However, and it's a two edged sword, I have been well & truly stuck in the reeds, on a lee shore, & praying for a pluck from an oncoming vessel that has subsequently passed by without even batting an eyelid. On the other hand, if I was moored up to a windward bank, supping a bevvy and at peace with the world, I would hardly expect an enquiry as to my well being from someone who really ought to understand the vagaries of the sailing fraternity, the point that Poppy was making. Mind you, I would be pretty miffed if a Ranger ignored my request for help!  Thankfully, on the Waveney, we have a Ranger called Steve Wright, ace bloke of the highest order, if he were to pass by without some sort of greeting/acknowledgement then I would be a tad upset! Don't expect he'd ever ask if I needed help but I have no doubt that he'd give me a chance to ask! Mind you, probably wouldn't let me forget, in the nicest possible way though.

 

One of Norfolk's finest, Aunt Agatha, once said, & I quote: 'Yow dornt help folk if yow do for them wot they should a doin for their selves'.  The old girl was quite right, just be prepared to be asked though.

[Baitrunner]

Smellyloo,

     I disagree - but each to their own and as circumstances dictate. And your not handing over control - the skipper should tell the person on the ropes where to tie it so he can get the rest of the boat in safely. Last week 2 good experienced friends took our mooring lines and waited for me to instruct them on where I wanted them tied. I had every faith they knew where to tie them, but maybe it was their experience that told them to take my orders. Who knows. I have used people who I didn't know before do the same for me as well. Of course I always check the ropes and no one is offended by that if you know your ropes (forgive the pun)

 

I would never be offended unless told to f off, but as long as I got a  - no thanks we are fine - then all is well in the world. What I find more ignorant are the watchers who never offer to help even if they can see you are having trouble.

 

As I said how do I know your a competent crew? 

 

In perspective the other week in the high winds - I know of 2 very competent and experienced crews who were more than happy to get some help with mooring. One boat had 4 people on the quay heading trying to get him in.

 

On the flip side - last week at Reedham a hire boat had moored with the loops on one end on the mooring line attached to the boat cleat, the loop at the other end on the mooring post - it looked like he was half way in the river. I spoke to him about suggesting he might want to shorten them a little as on the flood he would ram my boat - he was totally oblivious to what I was saying and left his ropes as was moaning it was difficult to get on his boat!!! - needless to say I moved my boat forward out of harms way, but this meant no one was getting in front of me.

 

It's all about how the offer is made and accepted/refused that counts IMHO. 

 

So I shall continue to be polite and offer help to one and all and hopefully if I do meet any experienced and capable crew they don't take offence at my amateur offer of help. 

[ranworthbreeze]

I will always offer help and will take a rope, but I leave it to the boats crew to tie it off.

Personally I think B.A. Rangers should enquire that everything is alright with boats stuck in reeds or outwardly showing signs of needing help.

The last thing we need on the Broads is the rangers to be aloof they are just messing about in boats like the rest of us, the Broads is a friendly place lets keep it that way.

 

Regards

Alan

[Poppy]

I will always offer help and will take a rope, but I leave it to the boats crew to tie it off.

Personally I think B.A. Rangers should enquire that everything is alright with boats stuck in reeds or outwardly showing signs of needing help.

The last thing we need on the Broads is the rangers to be aloof they are just messing about in boats like the rest of us, the Broads is a friendly place lets keep it that way.

 

Regards

Alan

 

I will also offer help - except that my insurance specifically precludes towing, apart from a dingy, a clause which I understand to be not uncommon.

Sadly most seem to have missed the point of my original reply, which has created so much heat, and very little illumination.

The example I gave was of somebody who should have known better about what was happening - and didn't, since their training had clearly been inadequate!

I would certainly not be abusive in such a situation - I only thought the Ranger was a d**k head.

When offered a tow by motor boaters in similar circumstances I refuse politely. Why should I do otherwise?

 

Incidentally, are hire boats permitted to tow under the terms of their hire?

[ranworthbreeze]

Hi Graham,

I assume that hireboats like most other boats are not insured to tow other boats (note to self look at the policy) however we all see the Richardsons boats been taken from Acle back up to Stalham in tandum by the Richardsons staff so maybe they have insurance.

I have not seen them flying any Trade Plates however

 

Regards

Alan

[Guest]

I don't believe that there is a simple "one size fits all" answer to the insurance question posed by Poppy, but it is an interesting one.

 

In my experience most, but not all, hireboat companies have a blanket prohibition on towing. I can understand that, even if the underlying policy allowed towing! 

 

My own policy (for a sailing yacht) does not cover me for towing or being towed "except in emergency or when it is customary". When I queried this with the underwriters they accepted that it was customary for a Broads yacht to be towed on occasion and that cover therefore extended to my boat being towed.

[ExMemberBobdog]

A few years back I was helping out with a youth group that had hired out about a dozen yachts from the Hunter fleet, together with a couple of Richardson's finest motor cruisers as support vessels (providing catering etc for the sailors).  On more than one occasion one of the Hunters got into difficulty and was towed by a cruiser.  Word somehow got back to Hunters that this had happened, and word was quickly got out to the youth group leader from Hunters that this was unacceptable, and that he must not under any circumstances use the motor boats to tow the yachts, as Hunters own insurance would be invalidated in the event of an accident.

[Baitrunner]

Poppy,

   Apologies if I mis read your comments.    

 

The point I was trying to make was that even the most skilled or trained of us might still ask if you needed help because you never know. I do think it is bad form to blame a ranger for asking when next time you may need help - or it may be someone else who has made a pigs ear of something and got stuck.

 

Good point about insurance though - Hadn't thought of that, so until I check my policy don't get stuck     (that's me towing a saily)