Broadshaven

[BroadScot]

One area IMHO that has deminished at Beccles, JM, is the Sunday Market, sadly I hardly recognised it the last we went. It was miniscule compared to what it had been before at the old air base. I can only assume, someone was too greedy for plot profit?

Iain

[Warp]

I really like the rooftop terrace idea. That's exactly the kind of thinking that creates a new experience and therefore a focal point. 

[JennyMorgan]

30 minutes ago, BroadScot said:

One area IMHO that has deminished at Beccles, JM, is the Sunday Market, sadly I hardly recognised it the last we went. It was miniscule compared to what it had been before at the old air base. I can only assume, someone was too greedy for plot profit?

Iain

Sunday markets, like all markets in this area, Gt Yarmouth for example, are up against the likes of Matalan & the Pound Shop. Beccles Sunday Market started to go into decline, as have others, but it became terminal when the organiser, Ian Frazer, regretfully died of cancer and no one was prepared to take it on. Ian's wife could have but it wasn't that much of an earner by the end, not like the old days, & if the weather was dire then Ian used to loose money.

[Soundings]

I guess this could go on an on. Stalham is another town that is a shadow of its former self, although it is looking much tidier these days. But the loss of the market and the addition of Tesco hit the town hard. There are those hoping that that 1200 odd houses going in will help revive the place but I do wonder. There are only two pubs in the town now anyway - The Swan and the Grebe. The latter is not that inviting to me but the Swan is pretty good. There is of course the Harnser a short walk up the road in Sutton which always was an ok pub but I have not been in for months. Apart from that there are only two restaurants - the Oasis (Indian) and the place by the state which I have never tried. Anyone remember the Maids Head?

[BroadScot]

1 hour ago, Soundings said:

Anyone remember the Maids Head

Indeed I do, had a few pints in there on a Tuesday market day. One landlord in there had a very loud barking German Shepherd, scared the life out of SWMBO as we entered one evening!

We liked the occasional meal in the Kingfisher Hotel at the far end of town. 

Iain

[Soundings]

1 minute ago, BroadScot said:

IWe liked the occasional meal in the Kingfisher Hotel at the far end of town. 

Iain

Yes, the Kingfisher was a decent venue - its is still there of course and from what I hear you could say it is still a hotel but a private one!

[Labrador]

2 hours ago, Soundings said:

I guess this could go on an on. Stalham is another town that is a shadow of its former self, although it is looking much tidier these days. But the loss of the market and the addition of Tesco hit the town hard. There are those hoping that that 1200 odd houses going in will help revive the place but I do wonder. There are only two pubs in the town now anyway - The Swan and the Grebe. The latter is not that inviting to me but the Swan is pretty good. There is of course the Harnser a short walk up the road in Sutton which always was an ok pub but I have not been in for months. Apart from that there are only two restaurants - the Oasis (Indian) and the place by the state which I have never tried. Anyone remember the Maids Head?

The Maids Head was run by Mick and Molly Richardson, after they came out of The Broads Haven (when it was a good pub). Her parents Frank and Dolly ran the Bridge at potter many years ago.

By the way, the Harnser is technically Stalham Green as opposed to Sutton.

[Soundings]

15 minutes ago, Labrador said:

The Maids Head was run by Mick and Molly Richardson, after they came out of The Broads Haven (when it was a good pub). Her parents Frank and Dolly ran the Bridge at potter many years ago.

By the way, the Harnser is technically Stalham Green as opposed to Sutton.

Ah, so we now have three pubs is Stalham

Is that the "boating" Richardson family?

[LizG]

No not Stalham Richardson's but the Potter Richardson's - Robin and Patrick

[Soundings]

28 minutes ago, w-album said:

No not Stalham Richardson's but the Potter Richardson's - Robin and Patrick

Sorry, yes that is what I meant the "other" boating Richardson's - I know Patrick and Robin quite well.

[TheQ]

Sadly I think the new housing, in Stalham and Hoveton / Wroxham will go to retirees and commuters to Norwich and London, bringing little local support. It's quite noticeable the extra traffic at 06:00 in the morning on Monday and 19:00 on a Friday evening as the London commuters depart and arrive the Stalham Area.

 I think that attempt to get another manager for the Broadshaven is probably it's last chance,  they need to get someone in who can make a real go of it, in both beer and food. If they don't then within five years we'll have another outbreak of "executive homes" packed onto the site.

[Soundings]

2 hours ago, TheQ said:

Sadly I think the new housing, in Stalham and Hoveton / Wroxham will go to retirees and commuters to Norwich and London, bringing little local support. It's quite noticeable the extra traffic at 06:00 in the morning on Monday and 19:00 on a Friday evening as the London commuters depart and arrive the Stalham Area.

 I think that attempt to get another manager for the Broadshaven is probably it's last chance,  they need to get someone in who can make a real go of it, in both beer and food. If they don't then within five years we'll have another outbreak of "executive homes" packed onto the site.

They built 9 new houses in Potter. Somehow the developer got the requirement for "affordable" lifted by the council so the main occupants are retired I am told. Commuting Stalham to London is not really viable - I know I had to do it in the 80s and moved back to the home counties as a result. The journey time to Norwich by car is at least half an hour (more once parking etc is attended to) and the train to London still takes one hour fifty minutes. The earliest I could get into Liverpool Street was about 0830. I never got back home before 8pm. So only those that spend days at a time in London will commute - it is not for the daily traveller. 

Commuting to Norwich is another thing altogether and I agree. Maybe even Cambridge is possible and certainly the Stalham by-pass seems to get busier and busier - anybody for an upgrade to dual carriageway

Re Broadshaven, I am sure you are right but as has been said without a huge amount of improvement work it is probably doomed - and I cannot see the pubco stamping up much development cash. It really does need the freehold to be obtained by a someone with vision.

[Polly]

Vision and a bulldozer!

[Soundings]

46 minutes ago, Polly said:

Vision and a bulldozer!

Exactly what I would expect from some - there are people who can work and work well with what they have. That is why so many old structures still stand in the UK and serve useful functions.

[Poppy]

1 hour ago, Polly said:

Vision and a bulldozer!

I only went there once. I was very disappointed to find nowhere to wipe my feet on the way out !

[Soundings]

Absolutely, but I have been in many places like that. And many of those have turned the corner due to effective improvement. But hey - you are entitled to your limited opinions and I am entitled to my visions of hope. Much prefer the half full cup to be honest.

[Poppy]

7 minutes ago, Soundings said:

Absolutely, but I have been in many places like that. And many of those have turned the corner due to effective improvement. But hey - you are entitled to your limited opinions and I am entitled to my visions of hope. Much prefer the half full cup to be honest.

Indeed - but how many attempts should reasonably be allowed ?

[Soundings]

One decent attempt would be welcome, Poppy. All that has happened so far is the equivalent of a few tins of white paint have been thrown at the place. It needs more, much more, than that - it needs a freeholder with vision and determination. I doubt we will get it but I live in hope. The last "attempt" was not much of an attempt at all really :-(

[TheQ]

Commuting to London is quite possible as you'll note I said there is extra traffic on the Monday and Friday, they are staying in London all week and returning to their holiday homes at the weekends.!!

 As to the broadshaven any manager has a major decision.

Go down market for more customers in the summer,

Go middle to up market to try to attract customers all year round

[Soundings]

That is not commuting really, that is playing at it and I doubt that the sort of people who will do that will be living on an estate by the side of Tesco, Stalham or the A11. It will all be local commuting unless the estate its close to Norwich to allow daily travel to London, but even then the cost of the commute will be horrendous. Cambridge, Yarmouth and of course Norwich are all close enough for a daily commute, but is there work for these people? In is an intriguing question - who will be the beneficiary of this building?

Yes the manager of the Broadsahven will have decisions to make but are they really any different to decisions being made at any pub on the Broads. The most significant decision the manager will have is how do I make the place attractive and I agree that the answer to that is probably beyond the wallet of what will be a tenant of what is currently a very, very run down business proposition.

Go down market for the summer eh? Are we saying holiday makers don't really care - I doubt that very much.

[Wonderwall]

It's not just coincidence the broads is losing many of its pubs. In years gone by the rivers were full of holidaymakers, with a year worth of savings in their pocket, more than happy to get a few beers, steak pie and mash and home made cake and custard. A clean family orientated environment was all they asked for in the ways of comfort.

The rivers now have more boaters whom don't really look to go for  a pint each night. And when they do many are looking for wine bar type affairs with things on the menu folk like me can't pronounce !!

I Deal with the public at my work and they do tend to want top service and surroundings but aren't always prepared to pay top dollar.A pub by the river selling a variety of beers, spirits , wines , ciders chicken in a basket , crisps and nuts, pool table and dartboard. Sorted. What more do you need?

Customers, that's all. 

[Poppy]

1 hour ago, Soundings said:

 

Go down market for the summer eh? Are we saying holiday makers don't really care - I doubt that very much.

Based on the high regard placed by many from the various Broads Fora for some of the Broadside pubs, that's exactly what I would say, witnessed by the food hygiene rating of a number of those very establishments !

[Soundings]

Cannot say I have noticed that as a trend, Poppy. No more than anywhere else. Do you have some numbers/percentages/data that support this. I for one would be interested. Have these outlets been shut down or is their rating just lower? Lower does not mean unfit for purpose does it? 

[Poppy]

There is a searchable data base here http://ratings.food.gov.uk/

[Soundings]

Thanks Poppy - as I suspected it says  "the food hygiene rating is not a guide to food quality" so it does not mean the place is unfit for business, it is just a measure of the standard achieved. Presumably the fact that the place is open is a clear indication the inspection did not identify any significant health risks, although I would be reluctant to go into an establishment that achieved less than 3 out of the possible 5.