Inconsiderate sailing?

[Hockham Admiral]

 As any overtaking vessels need to keep out of the way of the vessel being overtaken, whilst the vessel being over taken should maintain a steady course. The overtaking byelaws apply to sailys as much as motor boats

Quite so, Keith, you have it in a nutshell.

Unfortunately many of us wouldn't know that unless we'd raced dinghys or knew the colregs.

[JennyMorgan]

We shall never know the identity of the 'harassed' MAFI but there are several hire and hire type private boats here providing accommodation for competitors. From a sailing point of view, if the sailing boat is racing then with the wind this week as it has been then sailing up the North shore of the Broad without tacking has been quite possible. Putting a tack in would have been, in tactical terms, a very negative manoeuvre. If the sailing boat is at any fault then it is that the skipper had not simply waved the MAFI past hence my thought that they are in some way related. 

[JennyMorgan]

Quite so, Keith, you have it in a nutshell.

Unfortunately many of us wouldn't know that unless we'd raced dinghys or knew the colregs.

But who was the overtaking boat? It seems that neither was.

[Hockham Admiral]

But who was the overtaking boat? It seems that neither was.

I couldn't work that out, Peter; so I bow to your superior knowledge!  

[JennyMorgan]

I couldn't work that out, Peter; so I bow to your superior knowledge!  

In this case, John, I don't know the answer either

[kfurbank]

But who was the overtaking boat? It seems that neither was.

Hence my comment that without seeing earlier pictures or where both boats started from it was hard to say. The point I was making though is that it wasn't necessarily or automatically the motor boats fault.

[JennyMorgan]

Hence my comment that without seeing earlier pictures or where both boats started from it was hard to say. The point I was making though is that it wasn't necessarily or automatically the motor boats fault.

Nor that of the sailing boat! Stalemate?

[Hockham Admiral]

But we're forgetting Monica's original statement, guys:

"I saw this yesterday on The Wherry Cam. Over the other side of the Broad (Topliner side) was a hirer being pursued by a yacht. This poor chap kept pulling nearer and near to the shore. I felt very sorry for them."

So what we can tell, or not, from the pic is surely irrelevant and we revert to Keith's earlier:

" As any overtaking vessels need to keep out of the way of the vessel being overtaken, whilst the vessel being over taken should maintain a steady course. The overtaking byelaws apply to sailys as much as motor boats".

 

 

[Wildfuzz]

Said it before and will say it again, gotta get me one of these fitted.

[JennyMorgan]

The snap just before Monica's original one suggests that the MAFI was indeed the overtaking boat.

Edited August 28, 2015 by JennyMorgan

[JennyMorgan]

Said it before and will say it again, gotta get me one of these fitted.

Stuart, you mean that you don't already have one?

[Hockham Admiral]

Gosh, Peter, so I guess Monica's comment is just to be ignored, regardless of just who was overtaking who?

[kfurbank]

Nor that of the sailing boat! Stalemate?

Peter, there is no stalemate. If you look at my original post in it's entirely I agreed that all the motor boat had to do was throttle back. I was assuming at that point that the sail boat had right of way. I also offered another scenario that the sail boat was the over taking vessel and in that case it should give way. Without knowing the exact sequence of events before that picture was taken I am prepared to see two different scenerios and accept that either could have been at fault. Whilst I suggested it wasn't necessarily or automatically the motor boats fault, I never said it WAS necessarily or automatically the saily's fault either. I am prepared to accept it could have been either. You however are demonstrating that trait often found in sailors.

[JennyMorgan]

No John, but that second picture does suggest that the sailing boat was not harassing the motor cruiser. We can be accused of jumping to conclusions and acting as both judge & jury on this one and that is regrettable to my way of thinking.

[Hockham Admiral]

OK, you win, I'll leave you to it.............

[JennyMorgan]

Keith. I accept and agree entirely with what you have just written. I have defended the sailor's corner because, in this case, I felt that folk were too readily assuming that the sailing boat was at fault. I had hoped to be neutral by coming up with what I hoped would be a balancing comment.

[JennyMorgan]

John, I have no wish to be a winner, not my style, just a poor attempt to balance the debate.

[Hylander]

More the pity I did not take more of the snaps as it happened.      If a boat is moving further and further away and the other boat is also moving over at the same time.    Either they are attached (I doubt) , are pals (as has been suggested) may be someone fancied someone on the other boat ( always a possibility I suppose) or they were just playing silly buggers.  Who will ever know.

Edited August 28, 2015 by Hylander
Fingers wont stay on the right keys.

[Hockham Admiral]

Thanks, Monica. Shall we call it a day, please, peeps?

[senator]

I sailed as a kid and personally decided it wasn't the boating I wished to do but each to their own.

I would agree with an earlier post that there is absolutely no justification for racing of any kind on the rivers, with the possible exception of a couple of majors a year for which the rivers should be closed while the race is in the location.

Maybe the 3 rivers and a new one for motor boats, looking forward to entering the cruiser class for motor boats.

As for racing on Broads, why oh why can't the course layers just leave a clear passage for boats that wish to pass. The power boat organizers have to do it so why should the sail people be any different?

Adoption of the above would solve 85% of the problems, if you want to get rid of the rest you need to look across the North sea to see what common sense approach they take, sail with the wind, motor against it.

May not be traditional but then I don't see many red flags walking in front of motor cars either, even in Norfolk.

 

[smellyloo]

 

I would agree with an earlier post that there is absolutely no justification for racing of any kind on the rivers, with the possible exception of a couple of majors a year for which the rivers should be closed while the race is in the location.

 

 

Really? Perhaps you just trying to poke old wounds?

The Broads these days is about leisure.

Sailing and racing is a leisure activity.

Therefore it happens on the Broads!!

Simples

[senator]

Don't want to really get into the aggressive side of this so not going to continue to push but, take a step back and look at this from a non boater view point. Consider that the Broads is a leisure location that is used by a diverse selection of people, which includes Sail, Motor, Fishing etc. No one activity should be considered more important than another so should not be given precedence, with obvious common sense exceptions such as boats need to moor on limited moorings and as such take priority in mooring locations.

There are plenty of open expanses of water around the area called Broads and many of these are deep enough across their entire width to provide a race area for sail even allowing for a clear passage for non racing boats (power and sail), this provides lots of locations for those that wish to race a sailing boat without the need for others to have to alter everything that they are doing to accommodate them. 

As for fishing maybe stretches of water where a 12' clearance from the banks for any vessel is provided?

Putting yourself in the position of a leisure area manager surely it makes sense to try and accommodate all without introducing collision situations.

Yes I know tradition and all that but could you imagine what a great spectacle the 3RR would be if that was one of a very few opportunity's to race on the rivers each year. I'm guessing the spectators would turn out in droves, river racing would be protected and without the issue of innocent bystanders being hit or scared to death as the river areas in use would be closed to all other traffic.

I know it won't happen but it was just my idea of common sense.

[smellyloo]

There are many sailing clubs that do not have ready access to broads ... Beccles for example.

They provide an excellent environment for like minded people to meet and opportunities for people to learn how to sail.

Plodding up and down the river with no aim is fine for some but others require the more challenging environment of racing to hone their skills.

Remember also that racing is not a daily occurence and is restricted to a few hours a week.

Also passing through a racing fleet is an ideal opportunity for the mobo driver to improve their skills and knowledge of the rules of the road.

So a win win for all?

[quo vadis]

There are many sailing clubs that do not have ready access to broads ... Beccles for example.

They provide an excellent environment for like minded people to meet and opportunities for people to learn how to sail.

Plodding up and down the river with no aim is fine for some but others require the more challenging environment of racing to hone their skills.

Remember also that racing is not a daily occurence and is restricted to a few hours a week.

Also passing through a racing fleet is an ideal opportunity for the mobo driver to improve their skills and knowledge of the rules of the road.

So a win win for all?

it is also a good time for wafi's to learn to indicate what they intend to do and treat others how they would wish to be treated 

[dnks34]

Personally i feel sailing boats/clubs holding adhoc race events on the broads is akin to Manchester United v Arsenal playing on a tescos carpark on a busy saturday afternoon.  

There should be a lot more consideration and clear avoidance procedures put in place for the safety of all other river uses. 

Passing Beccles sailing club when a race is in progress can be an absolute nightmare and incredibly stressful, I suppose I should just turn around and go home changing my plans for the day

 

 

Edited September 13, 2015 by dnks34