Inconsiderate sailing?

[alexandlorna]

I watched two hirecraft attempt to negotiate approx fifteen or so sailing yachts on the Bure at Thurne this afternoon and although the hirer in front tried to show care and respect for the sailing types,  it quickly became apparent they were simply not going to attempt to let him through or even let him know which way to go

It seems the more timid folk are, the less respect they get

Tiring of this waterborne farce I went carefully forward and passed both hirer's and proceed through 

It was quickly apparent that SOME of these folk believe  they can simply do whatever they like!

At some point surely common sense must come before the sailors god given right to act like a total @rse!

When so many boats are tacking with total disregard for each other never mind power craft I can see only one result - chaos and potential collisions

[dnks34]

Ive had similar on oulton broad when the youngsters were out sailing one weekend. They had absolutley no intention to allow me any space to get through and when i went for a gap they pratically all pounced and started having a pop at me because they were racing. Their safety boat then stopped infront of me and started having a go by which time the boats had turned and were shouting at me again. They were racing across the narrow part of the broad and in effect had it completely blocked, its not on, i complained about the behaviour of the safety guy in writing to the club, no response. This was a while ago now but it still makes me mad and Its very hard to have any respect for sailing vessels period. Im happy to give way and stay out of your way but I wont be deliberately obstructed.

[Liberty]

Interesting post.  I suspect you'd take some flak for that on the other side!

 

You're right though.  We managed to turn up at a solid line of dinghies the other sunday, one of them called out to us if we would mind waiting 30 seconds as they were about to start the race.  Of course we said yes and had no issue at all.  

 

On the flip side, lots of times we have had people desperately trying to board our boat via the bow/side/amidships by ramming.  Not racing, not pushed for space, some them just stunning acts.  

 

We are a largish motor boat and have reasonable control.  That said, when we have come to a halt, hugging the right hand bank out of respect for the rules of the river, why oh why do some people have to force us into the trees.  

 

We try to do the right thing, but really, some of them are so bloody-minded and it is largely unnecessary.  I try timing an acceleration to coincide with an upcoming tack or gybe and still get stared at.  If I stay in the same place I get stared at.

 

'Thanks' wouldn't go amiss.  I have sailed all my life, largely racing on the Thames, and have had to pick my way through various fleets.

 

Rant over...

[BroadScot]

Horning.....Sunday mornings....nuff said!

 

 

Iain.

[JennyMorgan]

Case of knowing ones' place in the pecking order  . 

was 'ere first!

I'll go and hide! 

[quo vadis]

J M a lot said in jest

 

However I will not put my vessel or crew at risk because the rag and stick brigade want to play their silly games. Harsh but fair

[dnks34]

Atleast they are sober.......I would hope!

[alexandlorna]

Some of them might think ,and sail better with a few drinks lol

[JawsOrca]

Guys.. Please keep it friendly though.. Personally I enjoy watching sailboats and love trying to get through.. if there's too many then I tie up and enjoy the show..  although with the tide behind us I've go no chance of controlling Orca so everyone would die if I tried to get through I've always been told to keep to the bank and the boats will normally give you way there although you will still get the "spoil sport" look but just smile back.. 

[Gracie]

Well, you all know how I feel about the Sailie Thinghy's  Only kidding, I think they are beautiful to watch, just don't like trying to navigate through them and do as Jaws say's just pull over and enjoy them, have to say also when we have had to pass a yacht we have never had any bad comments and what I've seen from the cabin windows where I am normally hiding just friiendly waves

 

Grace

[Viking23]

If you can't make progress across a broad... drop your mud weight and wait there, be careful though... just in case there is boat there... lol...

When we have travelled through Horning, we have always aimed to go astern of each yacht, we are not very big, and can turn and reverse very quickly.

It can appear like a lap of dodgems to anyone on the bank, having said that, I am a sailer, so know what they "should" do before they do it lol...

The safety boat often carries a board, powered craft, keep to the right bank.

Well I would hope that at least one member of the yacht crew can also read the same notice, and understand what can be expected from powered vessels.

For that reason, there shouldn't be any conflict.

[Polly]

There should NEVER be any excuse for altercation, if it's offered then it's a bit of evidence of pig-headedness whether saily or stinky.

Phill prefers to motor the rivers so as not to inconvenience motor boats. I want to be sailing all the time, but take great care to indicate where to pass me and give a smile and thanks. We are all supposed to be on the water for pleasure after all.

I do think racing can bring out the worst....

[alexandlorna]

I would agree, it's only when they are racing there's any problems 

At. Such times it becomes almost impossible to see any common sense in play

[dnks34]

Polly I can assure you on Oulton Broad there was no pig headedness on our part, atleast not till the safety boat stopped accross our bow and prevented us from getting out of the way before the racers were back upon us, that was the cause of the altercation and it was not at all necessary. That led to my written complaint which the club ignored, probably out of pig headedness!!

I have to say Its rare a sailey ever gives me direction and very few even acknowledge my presence, however when I do get a smile or a wave it is gratefully recieved and reciprocated.

I hadnt considered dropping the mudweight and waiting, if i find myself in that situation again I will probably do that but really all that broad, could they not race in such a way that theres still a way around them?

[Polly]

No, I would have thought the problem was not of your making.

[dnks34]

My lack of understanding of sailing boats racing probably didnt help much I do accept that.

[MauriceMynah]

There are certainly pigheads in both camps and no acceptable solution when you are confronted by one.

Take a chillpill and if you have the time, let the other party have it's way.

Best chillpills come in bottles.

[BroadScot]

In a wee book called Broadsmanship, it recommends you always pass astern of yachts AFTER they tack.  However, what that book doesn't tell you some yacht skippers just carry on regardless and it becomes a guessing game. I do not wish this thread to become a Sailies v Stinkies, please. Its been done to death as they say. 

 

If we all use a wee bit of the grey matter, I am sure we can all get on boating without friction. Can't we?

 

 

Iain

 

         

[alexandlorna]

One of the boats I passed today was turning at a marker buoy, so I slowed and as soon as he turned across our bows, I passed behind ,but was he happy, no as he came tacking towards us, right off his turn and thought I would or even could stop again in such a short time!

He was forced to tack sooner (and still came far to close) fortunately with out contact

I was at this point almost in the reeds!

[JennyMorgan]

Jesting aside I do race & I do expect, rather than demand, a sporting co-operation from those in motor boats. If sailing boats are on the starting line then it's often a critical time for them, fractions of a second really can count and I really don't think it unreasonable that motor boats hang back, even lay against the reeds, until the fleet has at least cleared the line.

 

On the other hand I sometimes motor!! When I'm passing through the fleet and a sailing boat suddenly alters course, for no apparent reason whatsoever, seemingly taking it for granted that I will take avoiding action when, technically, the sailing boat should have held his course, then I do get a bit miffed, especially when I have made the effort to stay clear.

 

It's all a bit like playing chess, thinking several moves ahead, and sometimes being ready for the unexpected. Seconds really can matter for a racing boat, do those self same seconds really matter to a motor boat? Many races are one of a series, loose one race due to a motorboat being in the way could mean loosing the series, fractions of a second really do matter to a racing boat.

 

I do see sheer bloody mindedness from both camps but as a sporting event I really do think that it beholds non participents to say clear. Sportsmanship and courtesy, non participants really should give way.  By non participants I mean both motor and other sailing boats. Last year I skippered Brilliant during the Three Rivers Race. It really did surprise me when non participants mixed it with the racing fleet, it's not just motor boats that get in the way!

[Hockham Admiral]

Forty years ago I used to crew and race with the 470 UK National Champion (a 4.7m racing dinghy). We also sailed the East Coast, across the North Sea and down the English Channel for 20 years in our 30ft yacht. So I do know a bit about dinghys and yachts.

 

My 470 helm was utterly ruthless and would carve up any other racer who couldn't match his aggression. I found most of the other competitors much the same. If he was on starboard tack (which has the right of way) he would even hit a close competitor to cause that dinghy a penalty (usually a 720degs turn)....

 

I can see no reason why today's competitors are any the less minded.... and as for us "stinkies"..

 

I personally go at tickover along the starboard bank when passing a racing fleet. I haven't been hit, yet.

[kfurbank]

This reminds me of an incident that happened to me some years back in Jenny's garden pond (Oulton Broad). I had cruised back from Geldeston and decided to stop for a spot of lunch, so cruised into Outlon Broad. The Broad was deserted apart from me and two saily's in the distance. It was a nice hot day and not too much wind around so the Broad seemed a good place to have a beer and something to eat.  I headed to the far side of the Broad into the wind and came to a stop and turned the engine off. Being single handed, not planning on stopping long and with not much wind around I decided to not go to the hassle of putting the mud weight instead would eat lunch in the cockpit area keeping a good eye out for how much I drifted with the wind / tide. Within ten minutes or so the two saily's were like bees around honey. Back and forth passing within feet of me. They probably saw there was no mud weight down and therefore assumed I was still under power, although the lack of noise and water from the exhaust would have told them otherwise. On more than one occasion I got a look as if to say I should have got out of the way of their tack. OK perhaps I should have put the mud weight down, but it took me a full 30-40 minutes to drift across the Broad before I started up and cruised off.

 

With the entire Broad to play on, it seemed like sheer bloody mindedness to keep tacking so close.

[JennyMorgan]

If boats are not racing then I personally don't see the need for such behaviour, Keith. As you rightly say, lots of water for all to play on and avoiding a drifting boat is hardly a matter of life and death. Perhaps they thought that you had broken down and just came across to help a stinky in distress?

[kfurbank]

Peter,

 

I was sitting at the helm eating lunch most of the time, and there was no offer of assistance, and the looks said it all really. This and a couple of other incidents stick out in my ten plus years of encounters with saily's, the majority of which have been fine. I do try and avoid the 3RR course during the race though. Never understood why the hire yards don't publicise the event better at handover especially those that have to come down the Ant on a Saturday afternoon.

[Maxwellian]

It is difficult (not being a saily type) to second guess which way to pass. It is most helpful when the skipper gives a visible indication of which way they want you to pass. I find most of my problems arise when there are several travelling in convoy zigzaging across the river out of sync. Best advice is to relax and take the chill pill. slowly pass when safe hugging the bank side. we all have to live together. The problems occur when some are inconsiderate of others, so the more of us that show consideration the better. So chill your beans and don't add to the problem by adding to the inconsiderate behaviour.