Victor Meldrew lives!

[JennyMorgan]

I couldn't believe it, well, I could, it was very well lit! Just packing up from a few hours roaching when what I thought must be a very large boat came onto Oulton Broad with three headlights on, and it was only nine thirty! In the picture you can see two of them, the third is masked by the dredger. In reality it was only about thirty foot long and the glare of the headlights completely masked out its nav lights. Please, folks, you don't need headlights on a boat, you have eyes that can cope remarkably well, if you allow them to. Please read the navigation byelaws, headlights are offensive to other users, their use might well also be an offence. Sailing boats manage without them, so why not motor boats?

 

[MauriceMynah]

That rather depends on the available light Peter. If traveling from Beccles to Geldestone on a night with no moon well into darkness, trust me, a headlight is essential. Going across Hickling broad, try finding the posts marking the channel on a dark night without one.

 

As far as "masking the navigation lights" goes, I would probably think along the lines of...

...  "It's in the water, therefore it's probably a boat. Those are headlights, therefore it's probably heading towards me...  TAKE COVER... DON'T PANIC... DON'T PANIC."

 

Sometimes it's better with a headlight, sometimes without. Skippers call!

[JennyMorgan]

Should be going to Specsavers springs to mind! Imagine the advert, small white cruiser high and dry, its owner placidly enjoying a cuppa, surveying the mud and reeds around him, if only I'd turned that bl##dy headlight off

[NeilB]

Never cruised the Broads at night as I've always hired.  I used to do a some night cruising on the Thames with my own boat and some of Kris Cruisers and loved it, had one of those million candle power hand held torches in case I ever needed it. 

Only time it was ever used was to flash at the idiot on the narrow boat who was trying to blind me.

It was a hire boat and should never have been moving anyway.

[Warp]

If you think you will need headlights to navigate at night you should not navigate that night.

Headlights should not be used. They will blind anyone else who is attempting to navigate correctly.

You can use a spot to check things like posts etc but headlights are the wrong way.

[CooWee]

Hi, we found when kayaking at night with head torches that we could see better with them turned off, but what Dave says is also true as you get older (and boy am I getting older!) the eyes need more light to see to read for instance.

[MauriceMynah]

Sorry Warp, I disagree. If I need to use a headlight I shall do so.

Having said that, I am talking about a lamp mounted on the boat that shows a beam of light that lets me know where I am in relation to hazards in the vicinity. You might call that a "Spotlight" I call it a "Headlight"

 

If traveling down a tree lined narrow river, a light showing you where the banks are is essential. You will not be able to see where you are going without one. Trust me, I've tried it!

[Warp]

I understand that night vision gets worse with age. I don't understand that that is an excuse for disrespecting the rules, other navigators, people moored enjoying the night and using headlights - by which I mean the sort of thing you will normally find on the front of a car not on a miner's helmet.

There are plenty of other nights where there is loads of light to see by. If the skipper doesn't think it is safe to navigate within the rules then it is the skipper's choice wait for one of those nights. It is not the skippers choice to strap on a bunch of mole risers and blind everyone else.

[Warp]

MM that is what I would call a spot.

The OP is referring to lights of significantly higher output.

[MauriceMynah]

Thanks Warp, point taken. What is the legislation of which you speak? I'd like to know so's not to break it.

I am looking for an LED 12 volt floodlight. Not too bright, just enough to give clear visibility at say 50 feet. A wide angle would be useful to pick out both banks. Any advice would be helpful.

[BroadScot]

Hi MM, is this of any use to you?    http://www.marinescene.co.uk/product/13071/led-spot-light-12-volt-(black)-a915

 

 

Iain

[Warp]

Thanks Warp, point taken. What is the legislation of which you speak? I'd like to know so's not to break it.

I am looking for an LED 12 volt floodlight. Not too bright, just enough to give clear visibility at say 50 feet. A wide angle would be useful to pick out both banks. Any advice would be helpful.

 

 

Where is Paladine when you need him?

 

I think that these are the current rules here (I may be wrong): http://www.broads-authority.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0008/399230/Navigation_Byelaws_1995-1.pdf

 

33 onwards (part 2).

 

Peter points out that with the lights on the boat in his picture you can't see their navigation lights as they are drowned out by the heavy 'headlights' so the side lights are not visible from one or two miles (which ever is applicable to the boat).

 

I would also point out reg 80 that bans bright lights on shore - I think written under the mistaken belief that this would not also be a problem on the water...

 

Regardless there is a 'common law' - if you like - that you should not be spoiling other navigators night vision. Your eyes need maybe 20 to 30 minutes without being exposed to bright light for you to be able to see properly at night. The main point of lights on a boat are to be seen rather than to see with.

 

There is a trap that you may be falling into; depending on a spot too much (or continuously) you lose your night vision so you can only see what is in the spot. This is rarely what you want to look at (you want to be able to see all around you). Sometimes under the trees you do need to flick the spot on for a moment to be certain of distance and so on but it should only be for a moment likewise identifying posts across hickling for instance you see something you think is a post, you flick the spot on it for a moment to confirm it is a post and that it's the colour you were expecting.

[Viking23]

We always used a 55 watt rectangular fog light when we were on the canals, it was great for tunnels, as it lit a narrow strip across the brickwork.

On the canals it lit both banks.

The light was well forward of the superstructure, so it only illuminates any obstructions. If another boat was travelling then we would switch it off.

We tried it on the Broads, it illuminates the posts and ducks, and any flotsam, but as there is no glare, night vision isn't lost. Handy for a quick look.

This season we might try a couple of shielded, ie in a long tube, 1watt Led's, no more power than a couple of small led torches.

Night hazards, include anglers in boats with no lights just off centre of the river, in particular, the upper reaches of the Ant. That is really a dark river at night.

[LondonRascal]

I agree and disagree with regard to this...

 

I don’t think it is wrong to use a light to aid your vision and therefore navigation at night, but you simple need to use it well so not to dazzle anyone else. Just as in a car at night the headlights do not cause other drivers to be dazzled but high beam does.

 

I believe that commercial available spotlights for boats re overpriced bits of rubbish – often you are unable to even replace a bulb without a new head unit and not what is needed on the inland waters. 

 

While they may move remotely up and down and left and right, their beam is so focused it does not so much light the way ahead more just a small patch of bank or water and woe betide anyone caught in the beam for it is so powerful.

 

In most cases of night navigation on the Broads you are not actually going to meet someone coming the other way but if you can have a far less intense and focused light ‘dipped’ and not pointing right ahead but so its pool of light simple lights left hand bank, then if you were to meet anyone coming toward you they would not be dazzled by your light.

 

There are a host of small LED automotive lighting systems that would work – as to mooring up on a dark bank it may be helpful to have some side lighting concealed in the Gunwale to help show the bank, it would also mean once moored returning to the boat the bank would be lit making seeing where to step on and off that much easier.

[JennyMorgan]

Spot lights, used prudently, are one thing, headlights are another, especially when they come in a bank of three!

[Wildfuzz]

I use a spotlight with a red or green filter lens fitted, good visibility without the dazzle, similar to those used for night shooting. The green is especially good in fog or drizzle.

[JennyMorgan]

I use a spotlight with a red or green filter lens fitted, good visibility without the dazzle, similar to those used for night shooting. The green is especially good in fog or drizzle.

Ohhhhhhhh dear, confusing lights! Whilst I do exactly as you do when fishing I am mindful of the confusion factor, wouldn't want navigators thinking my green light was a starboard one! Don't you fellows use blue lights now?

[Wildfuzz]

That's a good point about the colors, I think that the size and power of the light would negate the confusion, however its a good point  I will rethink that one.

 

Blue lights off duty, that would involve "career dissipation" however may negate being stuck in those hire boat snakes that develop at times.......

[Warp]

Ok, so to pick up on Robin's dippy idea a headlight for those not well blessed in night vision, that conforms to regs and does not dazzle other boaters.

 

I'm posting this for stinkies as they are the ones who typically point their boats in the direction they want to go in and are less interested in the view elsewhere. Due to healing this would not be suitable on a sailing boat.

 

Bylaw 35:

 

Power-driven 35 Vessels

Underway

(1) Subject to paragraph (2) the master of a power-driven vessel underway shall cause to be exhibited:

(a) a masthead light;

(b ) a second masthead light abaft of and higher than that in (a) except that a master of a vessel less than 50 metres (164 feet) in length shall not be obliged to exhibit such light but may do so;

© sidelights; (d) a sternlight.

(2) Notwithstanding paragraph (1):

(a) the master of a power-driven vessel less than 12 metres (39 feet 4 inches) in length may cause to be exhibited in lieu of the lights prescribed in paragraph (1) an all-round white light and sidelights, and

(b ) the master of a power-driven vessel less than 7 metres (23 feet) in length may cause to be exhibited in lieu of the lights prescribed in paragraph (1) of this Byelaw an all- round white light and shall, if practicable, also cause to be exhibited sidelights. 

 

“Masthead light” means a white light placed over or as near as practicable over the fore and aft centre line of the vessel showing an unbroken light over an arc of the horizon of 225 degrees and so fixed as to show the light from right ahead to 22.5 degrees abaft the beam on either side of the vessel. 

 

In the regs you can have a masthead light. If it had a well designed pattern it could give reasonable light in a wide arc around the boat and attenuate down to reasonable levels above the dip.

[senator]

Col Regs Rule 20

Application
 

no other lights shall be exhibited, except such lights as cannot be mistaken for the lights specified in these Rules or do not impair their visibility or distinctive character, or interfere with the keeping of a proper look-out.
 

 

Not to hand but there are very specific rules and regulations concerning the specification of Nav lights and it most certainly does not include having a light that can illuminate specific objects as this would wreck everyone else's night vision.

 

Col Regs don't actually apply on the Broads but the regulations used are pretty much a direct copy, I would be surprised if they are different when it comes to lights but I may be wrong.

 

There is nothing stopping you using a spot light to identify objects occasionally but you cant have it on constantly, the problem with using it occasionally is that every time you do it will take you 10 minutes to get back your night vision

 

Comparing lights to driving on high and low beam has no relevance whatsoever, in a car all are using lights so you are not ruining someone else's night vision for 10-15 minutes, just blinding them for a couple of seconds.

 

 

Just try sitting in a dark room for 20 minutes you will find that you can see enough to make out shapes, the idea is not to be able to admire the plumage on the wildfowl but to miss the big shapes.

 

even a small low level white light used to look at a chart could blind you for 5-10 minutes which is why red filters are used to read a chart at night, if struggling for night vision could it be that you are going back and forth into a lit cabin or you are actually sat in a cabin where someone has lights on behind you.

[BroadScot]

Eat more carrots! Or Atrapine eye drops, or both. No lights required. Job done

 

 

Iain.

[Poppy]

How many times does it have to be pointed out that colregs do not apply to the Broads??!!

 

The Navigation bylaws specifically point this out, and it has been posted before on this forum and others.

[senator]

How many times does it have to be pointed out that colregs do not apply to the Broads??!!

 

The Navigation bylaws specifically point this out, and it has been posted before on this forum and others.

That would probably be why I stated that col regs do not apply on the broads then Poppy

[Poppy]

That would probably be why I stated that col regs do not apply on the broads then Poppy

So why quote from them ?

[CaptinDread]

If I need to navigate at night I have 2 SMD spots which I'm currently converting to red lenses, or get a infra red light and camera.