PMR Radio Interference

[LondonRascal]

I've just got back from a weekend on Broad Ambition and had treated myself to a new hand held radio - however it was constantly getting interference come over no matter what PMR channel I was tuned into.  I thought it was a duff radio and was all in a right strop and reverted back to my older model - only this also would get the same interference come over it.

I wonder if anyone else has experienced this of late?

It may be down to the atmospheric conditions we have had of late, or something in the general Broadland area causing it - as since back in London it does not suffer this.

When I speak of interference is comes and goes, and is a short pulse almost that will come over several times in a short period then all will be quiet for a time.  I guess it may even have been something on the boat causing it, since I did not walk away from the boat and see if it stopped (damn) but none the less most annoying.

[ExSurveyor]

Hi Robin,  I blame it on the forum upgrade..

[CheshireCat]

Well Robin I can probably tell you your problem PMR radios using 446 MHz I'm very close to amateur frequencies and you will find under certain conditions you will pick up spurious noise. This normally occurs under certain conditions if you have a barometer on-board and you happen to look and you see there is a high-pressure this can cause all sorts of strange things to happen. Amateur radio operators actually work forward the high-pressure as you can sometimes make contacts that you would never make under normal conditions for instance if you think the range of my radio en UGF and VHF it's probably around 20 miles but when you get these high pressures you can suddenly be Setting and Norwich and you could be speaking to someone in Glasgow all London en Manchester all the Scottish islands and possibly even all over Europe no this does not harm very often but when it does is very enjoyable. However the bad side to this is that it does make the bands very noisy as you get a lot of what we call spred which is simply someone to be using Channel 20 but they can be here on channel 40 60 and even easy so that's one possible reason Forget interference. Of course the other possibility is the radio you're using is not very well filter how can I explain if you imagine a gate that has been left open everything gets through but if you have a radio with good filtering then the gate is always closed. Hope this helps you.

Sorry in my last post it's no all correct one or two words have gone wrong, I am using I'm new piece of software for the blind and it is still learning my Scottish accent but please bare with me we will get there in the end as the more you use the program the more it understands and automatically connects all the words I don't see properly it's quite amusing.

[Hockham Admiral]

Good on you, Geoffrey! 

[JennyMorgan]

Interference on satellite TV yesterday, might be related.

[ExMemberBobdog]

Interference on satellite TV yesterday, might be related.

No, that was the men from Mars.

[Wonderwall]

Why would you need a PMR radio on a broads holiday?

what am I missing 

[Jacob]

Try adjusting the squelch on the set Robin. Interference could of been activity from a distant station. What is the model of the new set you've purchased?

Sent from my XT1092 using Tapatalk

[LondonRascal]

@ Wonderwall: Using PMR radios is a great way to keep in touch – either with crew or other boaters.  Many forum members will use PMR CH4 as a way to communicate ‘ship to ship’ and because these radios can be bought cheaply even from the likes of Argos, anybody can get started with no licence required.

--

The issue was not one of squelch – it just seemed to affect the PMR frequency range on and off at various times and locations, thinking it was CH2 to begin but then would pop up over CH4 later. It has never happened to me before so initially thought it was just me but of course it may have been caused by the boats eclectics ‘leaking; some interference and the only way to have known that would have been to get away from the boat (which I did not think of at the time.)

I may well be taking a course for VHF in the near future so I can use those radios legally not just listen, looking online there is a RYA centre near Waterloo so not too far from home.

 

[JawsOrca]

Robin.. My guess is sadly something up with the unit.. Or as you suggest something with the boats electrics. Both my radios (PMR and VHF) don't like being too close to the dashboard (It seems that both echo sounders and even the rev gauge upsets them). Sadly that's just were you want to put them though lol.. Kinda away from the main dashboard they are ok (but then hard to hear). 

I'm not sure I'd bother with VHF if you are solely on the broads; No one seems to use them.. Portable ones range is pretty dia (Even at yarmouth) so you don't even pick up the weather forecast. I've only used mine to talk to my folks that day! and talking to the happy chappy at somerleyton bridge. Although I'm going to put a fixed DSC unit in this winter in the hope to extend the range and to hopefully hear it a bit better. Also don't forget VHF shouldn't be used for general chatter even really on the ship to ship channels (it really pissed the fishermen off! and yup they will still sware at you!!) .. But certainly good to do for interest and/or if you crew and go to sea.  

[Bound2Please]

Will try ours then Alan with all batteries isolated, as going to the meet and sadly going back on the sat we got nothing coming back to ours, even when we were feet away from you (mind thats if yours were switched on of course)

 

Charlie

[JawsOrca]

Lol Yup Sorry Charlie, I'm already really bad at having these things on! My VHF one is semi flat and I cba to put new batteries in it lol but the PMR is rechargable so no excuse.. Next time we are out I'll remember to switch it on  cheers 

[Bound2Please]

Rather like me then Alan, havnt had it on since then must remember to put it on and recharge it if it needs it

 

Charlie

[LondonRascal]

The way I see it is that once you've got the licence that is it - done and dusted for good so handy to have should one need to use a VHF set and not be limited to just listening.

 

[CheshireCat]

Okay guys a few points about these cheap PMR radios and they are cheap I believe they start around £20 and the most expensive ones for a set of two is around £70. Because of this they are obviously not the best build quality they are plastic Mass produced and very poorly filterd making them very susceptible to spurious noise whether that be air born or electrical, as PMR radio is out there for anyone to use no license requirement you are limited  to very low transmit power I believe 500 mW as these radios fall under the same category as citizens band yes CB. The one thing I will point out Robin is the radio I saw you with is not a legal PMR radio that radio should only be sold two people who hold an amateur radio license , the reason for this is that radio can transmit about five or six  warts which it Is far more than 500 mW which are legally entitled to use on PMR. That radio is UHF and VHF which means you could accidentally transmit on bands that you're not licensed to use, when I watched your video where you showed  your new radio I did mean to tell you but I haven't really seen you since. As someone who studied very hard to get my amateur radio licence I don't feel it is correct that anyone can walk in of the street and buy a radio that you clearly have to be licensed to use. So to end PMR it's perfectly fine for two way communication on the Norfolk Broads but if you are buying one of these radios make sure you are  buying a PMR only ,you will then have the confidence that you're staying within the restrictions of the laws set out for using PMR two way communication thank you I hope this helps and it wasn't too boring...

[Jonathan]

CheshireCat,

Apologies in advance, because I know you are using transcription software, but I had to chuckle ...

When you are transmitting about five or six warts you probably shouldn't be using the radio.      

[ChrisB]

If PMR446 is satisfactory for your short range communication needs then it is possible to buy well made IP67 units from Icom and I am sure others also. Costing the same as a better quality VHF you just don't see them on Ebay but they are available and legal.

[Siddy]

I thought legal PMR radio tx at 1/2W and a way to tell that you can't remove the aerial, If it's the radio I think your using you can keep the tx low in program and a remote aerial.

Did it do the same with the engine off, invertor off even new router.

Just reminded me reading above i have a converted (boys in blue) radio I converted to a 1Mw Am radio in my radio days when I worked on them. Wonder if radio club wants it near me.

 

 

[JennyMorgan]

VHF is used on the Broads, yacht stations and bridges for example.

[MostlyAfloat]

For what it's worth, I'm currently doing my foundation course for amateur radio licence and as a consequence do a fair bit of listening in to the local repeaters and have noticed a fair bit of noise over the last week in the shape of white noise overriding the squelch, I quite often also use the fm band radio incorporated into the set to listen to 'normal' fm music stations and set the radio to a pmr channel as it's not regularly used around here and doesn't normally switch to a pmr tx, but today I noticed white noise was breaking through the squelch, this was on most pmr channels.

A guy at the club has just returned from the broads (about 2 weeks ago) and said pmr wasn't that hot and he noted the boat he was on the inverter was totally screwing up his set (an icom I believe).

Most likely it's a combination of weather conditions as noted before and comes and goes Robin, a pain, but ideal conditions for the Hams looking for a bit of extra mileage

[LondonRascal]

I have been spending many hours reading up on radios and watching many You Tube videos with HAM devotees.

As I see matters (and sorry if anyone here is a HAM devotee and gets annoyed) they seem to spend a great deal of time and money on gear then sit waiting to talk to other people who have also spent a great deal of time and money on gear for a short period of time then note their call sign and location and then move on to the next person. It is akin to a chat room on the internet but just more well behaved (usually).

Why this needs to be licenced to my layman's mind is simply to stop too many idiots causing chaos over the airwaves than anything else.

Once upon a time getting equipment for this would have been through specialist suppliers, advertising in magazines and the like (not high street shops) then Amazon came along and you can get it all to your door with no questions asked and no warnings at all in the products description about licences etc slowly with the proliferation of social media  sharing these sets through the likes of videos showing their range non licensed users will creep into using them more and more.

Turning to PMR this is like the kids toys to a HAM devotee, they want the real juicy frequencies which leaves all the Argos and Ebayers to play with their Binatone sets.  While it may not be 'legal' to use a radio that can put out 1w of power and tuned to the PMR radio frequencies , on this lower power and the narrow band I very much doubt you would cause interference than the .5w Binatones out there.

So,  for the short period of time one would be transmitting at 1w with a radio that can have a removal aerial, I'll take the risk of Ofcom's roth simply so I can have a radio that is half decent and can be used as a VHF set should I wish to (once get a licence for such).   

[CheshireCat]

Yes Jonathan I don't smile myself when you pointed that out transmitting on warts that's definitely a new one. This software is fairly new and I of course I'm Scottish so that times it struggles with my Glaswegian accident. However it does have the ability to learn but you have to correct it so I think I need to proof read a little bit more. Certainly it is a fantastic piece of software and if you are registered blind person like myself it really does make life so much easier, are you still use a program called JAWS for Windows which is basically a screen reader but he just won't shut up and really gets on your nerves and of course £500, but this new program is fantastic the only speaks when you wanted to speak and reads what you wanted to read so I'm very pleased with it and thank you very much for pointing this out to me...

[CheshireCat]

Robin I hope you don't think I was having a go at you because I certainly wasn't. I simply saw your video and as I said earlier I said to myself when I see Robin I must tell him that that radio is not a legal PMR. However as a licensed  radio operator I do not have the luxury to be able to say oh today I'll push Out 500 watts but I'll only do it for a minute I have worked  very hard to get my license and I would not like it to be taken from me, I am not licensed to use 500 W so therefore I don't do it. The other point I wanted to make a gentleman on here did mention earlier you can buy very good PMR radios from companies like ICOM but we will cost a considerable amount of money and I personally think for just two way communication on the river the cheap ones are just as good. Anyway I shall end here I think I have said enough about radio and  licensing all the best in the meantime...

[LondonRascal]

Geoffrey I know you were not having a go at me and I've taken on board the points you raise. 

I am 'green' to this and unsure what using a public frequency at .5w over what is permitted would actually cause.  Perhaps it might be the case someone on the same channel who would not usually receive my transmission (since are further away) would end up hearing me, that might therefore be classed as interference or annoyance and would not happen with a normal 'shop bought' PMR radio.

If one was to use some HAM radio equipment wrongly, it might interfere the local neighborhoods televisions reception as they transmitted - this is a far greater issue and I am sure the authorities would be keen to trace the offending radio operator.

I suppose therefore it is like a driver doing 80 MPH on the motorway, knowing it is over the speed limit but thinking it is somehow OK compared to the same 10 MPH over 30 MPH through a village.  Both are wrong, both are breaking the law but one may have a great consequence and risk to people than the other sop is deemed more acceptable. 

I've got a bunch of Binatone radios so I may go back to them, though I have noticed my local Sports Direct use Baofeng radios on PMR and during the day if one scans the channels you get their stock enquirers coming over - the thing is the shop in question is some miles from my house.

 

 

[CheshireCat]

I will tell you what I will do for you tomorrow I'll spend a bit of time do some research on better quality PMR radios, I do know amateur radio operators that are very technically minded and are brilliant with electronics, and one or two of them have some very nice quality handsets which the can adapt to work on certain bands let me have a chat with one or two of them, they might Be able to make you a nice custom handset for PMR 446. The great thing if you do this way as you can install I proper antenna as you will have the capability to use aPL 259 with an adapter this means even on your half at watt you would be putting out a very good signal and you receive would be greatly improved as well, I will let you know how I get on all the best...