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A dog at Reedham

Wussername

By Wussername
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Wussername

Wussername

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My wife and I often take our lunch and sit by the river, wherever takes our fancy., We decided to go to Reedham. It was pleasant enough, warm, with a refreshing breeze blowing down the River Yare.


It was cloudy, with sunny spells. The temperature was 23 to 25 degrees. The sun was very powerfull whenever the cloud cleared.
My wife noticed that a dog had been left in the car next to ours. Two small windows at the back of the car had been left ajar.
After nearly two hours, the situation was causing concern. The dog by this time was panting. The owners returned, seconds before the car was opened using whatever implements could be found. Rond anchors would have been a possible solution to lever open the windows causing of course considerable damage.


Prior to this escalation of events other methods had been put in place to assist the animal.


Irrespective of the consequences, myself and  holiday makers were more than prepared to take action.
However, could the car owner have sued us for damage to his vehicle? 


For example, what if a dog was in distress on a half million pounds cruiser. Would it effect your judgement? Would it make no difference? I suspect for the majority it would not.  But what if you got it horribly wrong!


What precautions would you make, or indeed should you make, to avoid potential legal charges if the owner tried to proove that you acted irresponsibly and in haste.

Old Wussername

 

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Boatingman

Boatingman

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Hi Old Wussername

 

I would have done what you intended to do but legally I think it would be trouble

calling the police is the correct option I think only they have the power not you and I as private citizens

but as I said I would have broken and damm the consequences  I would be prepared to argue out in court

 

Ray

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Matt

Matt

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You should ring the police first as they have the power of entry. If you are going to do it yourself you should be prepared to justify your actions in court- time observed, temperature, condensation on the windows is always a good one, attempts made to contact the vehicle owner etc etc

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Baitrunner

Baitrunner

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You report it to the police and let them carry the responsibility for making the judgement. Maybe not ideal but unless you have deep pockets and a good lawyer how do you prove the dog was in dire danger?

to be honest I am not a dog lover but I cannot understand if you are, why do people do such things. 

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Seriously

Seriously

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Have often wonder this myself. Also a dog lover.  If you put your head into the pub and shouted . Can the owner of the Audi please return to their car . unlike you your dog needs a drink. Could leave to a confrontation ;)  . Seen in papers recently of a child being left in car and died :( so if you walked past car would you be in the same bother if you smashed the window to get the child out. would the owner and police be understanding you was just trying to do the right thing. So one has to pay for the window ;)

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HemsbyPie

HemsbyPie

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According to RSPCA you should dial 999.

 

The law states that you have a lawful excuse to commit damage if you believe that the owner of the property that you damage would consent to the damage if they knew the circumstances.

 

So basically, don't go breaking windows on every car you see with a dog in it, but if you do feel the need to step in then take video/photographic evidence and if possible, witnesses who also agree the health of the animal is in danger.

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Wussername

Wussername

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The problem is proving the Dog is in distress, My Dog pants constantly in hot weather because he wears a b****y great fur coat, Dogs don't sweat they pant and that's how they cool themselves. Personally I never leave the Dog in the car on his own for more than a couple of minutes even in Winter but if I leave him for a couple of minutes I leave all the windows slightly open.

Under the circumstances you quote I very much doubt if the Dog was in any real danger, had all the windows been closed maybe.

 

Dogs pant, panting does not equal distress. Panting is a Dogs way of cooling it's self just as sweating is our way.

 

It is really not why dogs pant but the circumstances in which the dog finds itself as to why it is panting. Looking at a dog, through the window of a car it would be impossible to determine if the dog was suffering. However, on a hot day, with the sun directly on the windows of the car, would be a good indication that the dog was under stress.

Other factors also contribute to the animals welfare. The age of the dog, medication which the dog may be taking and if there was water available for the dog and of course the period of time the dog was contained in the car.

Under extreme conditions a dog will lie down, become lethargic and will stop panting. An indication to some perhaps that the dog is OK. Leaving a window slightly open is not satisfactory.

How do you leave a dog in a well ventilated car? What is a well ventilated car.?

Police dogs are left in vans all the time. On hot days?

I have been in contact with Fire Service dogs, Police dogs, Drug dogs. At no time have their owners been negligent with regard to the welfare of the animals in their charge. In fact the opposite, they have all gone to extraordinary lengths to protect the dogs in their care. I therefore find it difficult to imagine a police officer placing his dog at risk.

The incident which you have mentioned relates to a police officer, several years ago it was found that a one year old spaniel, in his care, died because of a heat related  incident. He avoided prosecution and sometime later was promoted to Sargent.  In 2011, two dogs in his care died of heat exhaustion in a police vehicle. He was found guilty. Attempted suicide, sectioned and subsequently left the police force.

This year, in the United States, 11 police dogs have died because of heat exhaustion, 9 were left in patrol cars.

In this country, without exception, all dog related charities, organisations, veterinary practices, all state that dogs should not be left unattended in a vehicle, on a hot day. Even with a window open.

 

To suggest otherwise is irresponsible.  

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Mark

Mark

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Indeed, panting does not always have to mean that a dog is in distress. Alternatively of course and dependent on the circumstances involved it could however mean just that.

In meantime and as the issue is one of dogs being left in hot cars and what to do , then the below copy and paste from the RSPCA site gives some clear advice and guidance , as well as answering some of the questions raised.

Hope that this is useful and the full link also below

http://www.rspca.org.uk/adviceandwelfare/pets/dogs/health/dogsinhotcars

Dogs die in hot cars

 

Never leave your dog alone in a car on a warm day. If you see a dog in distress in a hot car, dial 999.

Many people still believe that it’s ok to leave a dog in a car on a warm day if the windows are left open or they’re parked in the shade, but the truth is, it’s still a very dangerous situation for the dog.


A car can become as hot as an oven very quickly, even when it doesn’t feel that warm. When it’s 22 degrees, in a car it can reach an unbearable 47 degrees within the hour.


What to do if you see a dog in a car on a warm day

In an emergency, we may not be able to attend quickly enough, and with no powers of entry, we’d need police assistance at such an incident.


Don’t be afraid to dial 999, the police will inform us if animal welfare assistance is required.
 

Help a dog in a hot car

  • Establish the animal's health/condition. If they're displaying any signs of heatstroke dial 999 Immediately.
     
  • If the situation becomes critical for the dog and the police are too far away/unable to attend, many people’s instinct will be to break into the car to free the dog.

    If you decide to do this, please be aware that without proper justification, this could be classed as criminal damage and, potentially, you may need to defend your actions in court.
     
  • Make sure you tell the police what you intend to do, why, and take images/footage of the dog and the names and numbers of witnesses to the incident.

    The law states that you have a lawful excuse to commit damage if you believe that the owner of the property that you damage would consent to the damage if they knew the circumstances (section 5(2)(a) Criminal Damage Act 1971).
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Wussername

Wussername

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I have been a dog owner. Involved with dog training. Gun dogs, obedience training, and behavioural issues. In this respect the welfare of dogs has been an important part of my life. Your post Mark is important in that it has made a valuable contribution to those people who own dogs and care for dogs. Irrespective of what other people might say, it is not acceptable to leave a dog, in a car, on a hot day. 

Having the windows open is not the answer. The temperature of the car, on a hot day, inside, can and will rise very quickly. 

Those who state otherwise, sadly, have been misinformed. Panting is not an issue, I agree, all dogs pant. I do urge you, that if you see a dog panting in a very hot car it may be that the dog is under stress. That is the common sense bit!

With regard to the dog at Reedham, people parked on the quay heading responded magnificently, rugs and towels were placed over the vehicle to prevent the sun reaching the dog. Holiday makers responded by purchasing water, in bottles, from the post office which they poured into the car, to offer the dog a degree of relief.

Irrespective what other people may say:

If a dog is panting inside a hot car. Irrespective of a window being open. Act, do something.

I would also like to add, I hope an equal positive note, that the number of holiday folk who are putting life jackets on their dogs has increased dramatically.  A wonderful example of caring owners. I would go further. It should be mandatory.

Indeed, on certain areas of the rivers it would not be amiss if the owners followed suit.

Tootle pip

Old Wussername

 

 

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HemsbyPie

HemsbyPie

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Wusser, whilst I know you are meaning well and as I've said before I would never leave my dog in the car for more than a couple of minutes in any weather, people who know me know that he goes every where with me even to work each day but I do feel that this problem is being blown out of all proportion, On Saturday I conducted a very rough and ready experiment, I left my vehicle in direct sunlight in a spot sheltered from any breaze with the 4 windows down approx 2.5 inches. The temperature on the cars thermometre said it was 25.5 degrees outside. aftr 2 hours I returned and using a digital thermometer I checked the teperature inside the car  it was 37.5 degrees. If I had left my dog in there with an adequate supply of water, would he have died or had sunstroke?

 

Dave

I'd say that 2 hours at 37 degrees wouldn't do a dog much good. I'm not a vet, but at the very least that would cause unnecessary stress - I know i would be stressed and sweating and probably feeling a bit crap if it was me stuck in there with nothing but warm water to drink (as don't forget the water will heat up with the car)

Edited by HemsbyPie
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smellyloo

smellyloo

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Yes and don't forget the dog is also wearing a thick fur coat ........

Now I know I wouldn;t want to sit in the shade wearing nothing but a fur coat and a collar in 37 degrees even if I were being brought a glass of Amstel every fifteen minutes.

Without the fur coat   ummmm .... maybe?

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CheshireCat

CheshireCat

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Good afternoon as some of you know I'm guide dog owner and now on my fourth dog, for those of you who do not know a lot about the guide dogs for the Blind Association they have 100 years in the business of dogs so I think they know what the are talking about, forgetting all that if you are a dog owner and you are going out in your lovely car and you know you're going to be away from your lovely car for more than two hours in very high temperatures and you leave your dog in your lovely car well you should not be a dog owner...

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Wussername

Wussername

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Wusser, whilst I know you are meaning well and as I've said before I would never leave my dog in the car for more than a couple of minutes in any weather, people who know me know that he goes every where with me even to work each day but I do feel that this problem is being blown out of all proportion, On Saturday I conducted a very rough and ready experiment, I left my vehicle in direct sunlight in a spot sheltered from any breaze with the 4 windows down approx 2.5 inches. The temperature on the cars thermometre said it was 25.5 degrees outside. aftr 2 hours I returned and using a digital thermometer I checked the teperature inside the car  it was 37.5 degrees. If I had left my dog in there with an adequate supply of water, would he have died or had sunstroke?

 

Dave

This is neither fishing or mending nets!

You state that you would not leave a dog in a car for longer than two minutes in any weather.

You then ask " If I had left my dog in there with an adequate supply of water, would he have died or had sunstroke?

I think that you have answered your own question.

At 100f water would not be sufficient to lower the core body temperature of the dog. The dog could well die or indeed suffer brain damage.

But that is just my opion. Other people may disagree. But I would not leave my Labrador or Golden Retriever in those conditions.

Wussername

 

 

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Wussername

Wussername

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Put them in a car and see what happens.

But you answer me this.

Would you leave your dog, in a car, at 100f, or more, with a large bowl of water, with the windows open 2", in direct sunlight, for longer than say.........half an hour to an hour.

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