Varnish (again)!

[JanetAnne]

There comes a time when the purchase of varnish needs to occur.

With so many options now out there its seems every manufacturer and supermarket have their own version which is obviously better than all the rest, will last the life of the planet and is such a good deal they cant hold the offer for much longer for fear of bankruptcy. We seem to have become a minefield of information and promises that, once your pride and joy is covered in the stuff, you hope were in earnest.

We have recently been using Witham's Flexible Yacht Varnish and have been thrilled with it but, unfortunately, EEC legislation has led to its withdrawal because it no longer meets the VOC content requirements.

And so we have a dilemma. We need something not two pack or epoxy based, just good old fashioned oil based multicoat varnish. It needs to be able to make mahogany look good enough to drool over!

My question is... (see, you knew I'd get there eventually), which varnish do you use and why? Is Le Tonkinois worth the money, does Schooner really last, is Wilkinsons finest really able to do what it says on the tin? You get the idea. Any and all comments welcome but no, we cant go and buy a plastic boat - used all the budget on woodworm food for the wooden one

Peeps

 

[Springsong]

We used Brava and many yards up in the north seem to be using it. I have thinned it with Owatrol when the weather has been cool. Brava also do a very effective penetrating varnish. All available  from the Dick Mace emporium of Marine and Industrial who also deliver. Brava varnish is around £20 a tin, good value. 

[Timbo]

I took the samples to the tip the other day after five years sitting outside....but I ran a test on several pieces of hardwood and plywood. Brands tested were Ravilakk, Tonkinois and three preparations of Wilkinson's own brand. The Wilkinson's preparations were gloss, satin and a section that used gloss to build up and satin to finish off. I applied three coats of each varnish to hardwood, and 3/4" marine ply both sides and edges. I then left them in the garden for the last four years.

The results

Ravilakk...Might as well varnish your boat with fresh air. After one year Ravilakk had bubbled, peeled, yellowed and the timber had the appearance of leprous pustules. Water had penetrated the varnish and the plywood was rotting and wet on the inside. Expensive as well.

Tonkinois

Very expensive, easy to apply...ish. Some patches of yellowing slight water penetration in the plywood. Looks really good when you first put it on.

Wilko's gloss

Needs to be thinned with bog standard white spirit, once thinned applies with gloss roller and 'tipped' out with brush or foam brush. I thin a new tin down by adding white spirit straight to the tin to roughly the consistency of emulsion paint for later coats but about half as thin again for the first coat. No exact science just bung the stuff on.

Glossy, really tough, no water penetration at all, does look a bit plasticy when you get some layers on it.

Wiko's Satin

As above but looks a bit too dull...no body

Wilko's gloss with a satin Top Coat

Perfect!  No blotches, no peeling, no water penetration, the gloss gives a thick body and the satin coat just takes away that plasticy look for a deep shine.

I use the Wilko's gloss and satin treatment on any wood going outside...tables, benches, planters. I also used the same on all my internal woodwork, doors, skirting etc in the flat. After the painter and decorator did one door in some interior muck I had to rub it back and showed him the same technique which he now uses. 

Now I have got a couple of liters of some varnish especially designed for interior use on boats I got from Finneys. Now this guy really knows his stuff when it comes to lacquers etc for fine woodwork. I use his Finpol special lacquer on the tobacco boxes I make from various hardwoods and hardwood veneers. Beautiful finish and for a high shellac content it endures being dropped and scuffed in pockets etc . However the boat interior stuff has not been tried out yet...its sat on RT at the moment but I will try it. If Finney ever made boat varnish...I would buy it!

In the meantime I like good old Wilko's! 

[BroadScot]

The one I remember using years ago was called Spinnaker Yacht Varnish, high gloss finish and hard as nails!.

http://www.cecchi.it/italiano/htmeng/spinnain.html

[JennyMorgan]

I've used cheap varnishes in the past only to regret it, having then to strip off and start again. For me Epifanes is cheap, because it lasts.

[Guest]

We're close to having to make a decision on what varnish to use on our wooden motor cruiser, and we're going to need a lot of it. I suppose that compared to all the other costs involved in restoring a wooden boat, the cost of varnish is a relatively minor consideration. However, it's only natural to want to get value for money and although I've seen Epifanes recommended in quite a few boating forums I have always hesitated when I see the cost. There is also so much conflicting advice out there that the more I research the more confused I get!

I do find the idea of the older oil-based varnishes such as Le Tonkinois (and I think Brava is not dissimilar) very attractive. Timbo's experiment is clearly a negative, but there are others who report positively.

We used Hempel Favourite on our half decker, mainly because that is what the previous owner used and she came with half a tin of it. So far it seems OK, but I suppose it's not that much cheaper than Epifanes.

Hmmmmm..............

[BroadScot]

2 hours ago, BroadScot said:

The one I remember using years ago was called Spinnaker Yacht Varnish, high gloss finish and hard as nails!.

http://www.cecchi.it/italiano/htmeng/spinnain.html

The above was used on mahogany display shop windows that took the full brunt of any hot sun. My boss swore by it, and we did his double garage doors also. It never flaked.

Iain

[JennyMorgan]

I have never had varnish flake, I have had numerous black spots where water has permeated though, but not with Epifanes.

If a job is worth doing then it's worth doing well, according to my wise old granny and her granny before her, and she was a wise old Romni lady! 

[MauriceMynah]

My old dad's addage was...

..." If a job's worth doing, it's worth doing well, and if worth doing well, it's worth paying somebody else to do it."

[tjg1677]

When I fitted out my narrowboat I used Screwfix Yacht varnish, it was brilliant, lasted over 10 years and still had a deep gloss.

Admittedly it was interior and I suspect that its formula has now probably changed coz of those darned EC rules but worth a look at. Have used wilkos too and have to admit it was good, in fact there was one bloke in our boat club who swore by wilkos paints and would not use anything else, even for the exterior.

trev

[BrundallNavy]

As I have probably more varnish to do than most people, I use Ravalak thinned with natural turps for the first 3 coats then a light rub back followed   by 3 coats of Brava then rubbed back with 600 grit then one last coat of Brava thinned with owatrol.your welcome to come and look at my heads floor to see the results.  Ravalak is a great varnish and very easy to apply but does not have enough uv for use outside ok inside. Do not be tempted to use G4 as a base coat that was common a few years ago as it will peal and turn yellow.

Ravalak is around £20 and Brava around £30 a tin.

Doug.

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, brundallNavy said:

As I have probably more varnish to do than most people, I use Ravalak thinned with natural turps for the first 3 coats then a light rub back followed   by 3 coats of Brava then rubbed back with 600 grit then one last coat of Brava thinned with owatrol.your welcome to come and look at my heads floor to see the results.  Ravalak is a great varnish and very easy to apply but does not have enough uv for use outside ok inside. Do not be tempted to use G4 as a base coat that was common a few years ago as it will peal and turn yellow.

Ravalak is around £20 and Brava around £30 a tin.

Doug.

 

Doug, forgive my ignorance but what is G4? And a couple more questions. Is Ravalak the same as Ravilakk (sold by SML Paints)? It looks from their website as if it is discontinued. And Brava seem to have a few different varnishes - VG63, VG64, VG66. Which do you use and why?

Thanks!

[Springsong]

We used VG66 on Star Premiere. She still looks good now even after

two and a half seasons on the water.

[Guest]

Oddly enough we were just talking about Star Premier and how good the varnish work looked when we saw her at the Beccles event a few weeks back. One for the shortlist, I think!

[Vaughan]

2 hours ago, springsong said:

 

Beautiful.

Quite impeccable.

Those two centre planks on the transom, from the same board of mahogany, are gorgeous.

Varnish of this standard can only be done by good preparation. Scraping right back to the bare wood, leaving no trace of the old surface.  If you want to use stain to enrich the colour, then stain the bare wood and not the varnish, or you end up with brown paint. I love the natural fibre rope fender. Won't hurt the surface!

I really don't suppose it matters what the brand of the varnish was : It's the bloke what did it, that counts!   

[Vaughan]

"So here's one I did earlier!"

Sorry about the fuzzy photos but they were taken a while ago.

 

 

This a Hampton "Classic Safari" that I bought for my yard at Womack when she was already in private hands. The varnish was weathered and badly bleached so I "bit the bullet" and burned off the hull with a gas blow lamp and a very sharp 3 corner scraper. Not that difficult, as the varnish will melt before it burns. You just have to work upwards all the time, so that the blow lamp flame doesn't touch bare wood.

She was in the shed for 5 weeks, while I put on seven coats, after two light rubbings of stain, with all the hardening and sanding in between, and the hull alone took more than eleven litres of Blue Peter varnish. The white "boot top" and the edge of the cream cabin top were cut in by hand. No masking tape, on a varnished surface!

We had a regular customer, a retired Grimsby tug skipper and his wife, who came for two weeks every year on this boat, because he could go wherever he liked on the Broads, and no-one seemed to realise he was on a hire boat!

I kept the name-board off the transom when I sold her and this has hung on the wall of every house we have lived in since.

 

 

[JanetAnne]

4 hours ago, Vaughan said:

Beautiful.

Quite impeccable.

Those two centre planks on the transom, from the same board of mahogany, are gorgeous.

Varnish of this standard can only be done by good preparation. Scraping right back to the bare wood, leaving no trace of the old surface.  If you want to use stain to enrich the colour, then stain the bare wood and not the varnish, or you end up with brown paint. I love the natural fibre rope fender. Won't hurt the surface!

I really don't suppose it matters what the brand of the varnish was : It's the bloke what did it, that counts!   

Its not all blokes Vaughan. This one is down to a (then) 19 year old girl as Barry etc will verify.

The varnish was Ronseal Yacht varnish before it got health and safety'd and became 'outdoor' varnish. We loved the stuff! The white paint is good old Dulux.

[Vaughan]

3 minutes ago, JanetAnne said:

Its not all blokes Vaughan. This one is down to a (then) 19 year old girl as Barry etc will verify.

Lovely Job!

Bloke, of course, was just a figure of speech!

[JanetAnne]

Absolutely. Couldn't resist... sorry

[Springsong]

I cannot take credit ( as much as I would like to ) for the exterior varnish work Dinger up at martham did all the exterior paint and varnish.

[LondonRascal]

The problem with Varnish is there are just too many types and companies making the stuff which means everyone has their favourite and then there is the whole how best to prepare and apply debate. 

I’d say that it comes down to what works best for you, see the results from what others have achieved using various types. 

If you have a large amount of varnish to remove from large flat surfaces like bulkheads or Transoms to save on sanding time, using a scrapper like this. Link: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00DY9ETHE 

I will really save a lot of time with sanding to remove a couple of coats of the varnish in one drag. To avoid the risk of the edges digging into the wood, a bit of grinding these to a rounded edge will remove that risk. You can also get smaller or shaped versions for harder to reach places too.

[Timbo]

22 hours ago, brundallNavy said:

As I have probably more varnish to do than most people, I use Ravalak thinned with natural turps for the first 3 coats then a light rub back followed   by 3 coats of Brava then rubbed back with 600 grit then one last coat of Brava thinned with owatrol.your welcome to come and look at my heads floor to see the results.  Ravalak is a great varnish and very easy to apply but does not have enough uv for use outside ok inside. Do not be tempted to use G4 as a base coat that was common a few years ago as it will peal and turn yellow.

Ravalak is around £20 and Brava around £30 a tin.

Doug.

 

So....so...Mmpph mphh...sorry I was at the bottom of the wheelie bin dragging out the tin of Revilak I threw away...so I need to buy some more of this stuff Doug? 

[JanetAnne]

I have just been told Brave is coming out at £230 a case (6x 750ml tins)...

Makes you realise that fixing, screwing, sanding and refinishing the wood costs probably double what the actual wood cost in the first place!

[BroadScot]

Choose ONE MAKE  and buy in bulk to suit all you woodie owners may be the way forward?

Iain

[Guest]

8 hours ago, BroadScot said:

Choose ONE MAKE  and buy in bulk to suit all you woodie owners may be the way forward?

Iain

I suspect that all the woodies left on the Broads today would have rotted away before you got all the owners to agree on one make!

It's beginning to look like Epifanes for us, Brava is just too expensive to contemplate.