unclemike Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 16 minutes ago, MauriceMynah said: 'm an Antiques dealer. more of an antique Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 1 hour ago, JohnK said: For example if all cars have ABS does it matter if people don’t know how to drive without it? 51 minutes ago, JohnK said: if someone is unlikely to ever drive a car without ABS (I’d say most new drivers fit this category) do they need to know how? Absolutely they should, what if the system fails or malfunctions. But then I am the kind of person who believes skid pan training should be a compulsory part of your basic learning. 24 minutes ago, MauriceMynah said: Thanks OldGregg, I didn't know that. My car is a 1996 Volve (850) Love it to bits but then I would, I'm an Antiques dealer. I have never heard of a Volve, I must be far too young Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MauriceMynah Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 2 minutes ago, Jayfire said: I have never heard of a Volve, I must be far too young O :) 10 minutes ago, chameleon said: more of an antique That's how I sell myself ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grendel Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 29 minutes ago, MauriceMynah said: Thanks OldGregg, I didn't know that. My car is a 1996 Volve (850) Love it to bits but then I would, I'm an Antiques dealer. mine dates from 2000, and has the new name v70, they just keep on going, mine is up to 220,000 miles now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grendel Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 newer drivers do need to know not to lift their foot when the ABS cuts in - most still think there is something gone wrong with their brakes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZimbiIV Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 I used to have TVR's, the only safety device was the nut behind the wheel. Drive them wrong and the Darwin Awards kick in. paul 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 1 hour ago, JohnK said: I use it all the time in average speed camera zones In my opinion adaptive cruise control (where the car holds a distance to the car in front) is a fantastic safety aid (sadly I don’t have a car with it on at present). I agree too but also thinks it matters less. For example if all cars have ABS does it matter if people don’t know how to drive without it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rightsaidfred Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 1 hour ago, JohnK said: I agree too but also thinks it matters less. For example if all cars have ABS does it matter if people don’t know how to drive without it? Relying on technology to get you out of trouble is no substitute for having the skill to avoid it in the first place, the mechanics of driving are simple, road sense and the ability to adapt to changing conditions is a different matter all together. Fred 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rightsaidfred Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 53 minutes ago, Jayfire said: Absolutely they should, what if the system fails or malfunctions. But then I am the kind of person who believes skid pan training should be a compulsory part of your basic learning. Totally agree Fred 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grendel Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 one of the first things my uncle taught his sons when they started riding motorcycles was how to fall off safely (ex motorcycle policeman). I would love skid pan training - the only trouble is they have closed and built upon most of the skid pans we had in kent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnK Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 What if the brakes fail?What if the steering fails?Do people need training for those eventualities too?Where do you stop?What when the training for something conflicts with what you have? ABS being a good example where people who know about easing off braking when you lock a wheel not stopping as quickly as they could with ABS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grendel Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 I think we have already had the point raised that ABS isnt about stopping quicker, its more about retaining steering control under hard braking by keeping the wheels turning. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vanessan Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 1 hour ago, grendel said: one of the first things my uncle taught his sons when they started riding motorcycles was how to fall off safely (ex motorcycle policeman). I would love skid pan training - the only trouble is they have closed and built upon most of the skid pans we had in kent There used to be one in Maidstone, has that gone do you know? I think it was a police run facility, I went on it about 10 years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnK Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 I think we have already had the point raised that ABS isnt about stopping quicker, its more about retaining steering control under hard braking by keeping the wheels turning.It’s my understanding that ABS also stops you quicker than a person doing cadence braking but I’m not certain. For sure (at least I think I’m sure ) the cars that sense if they think you’re emergency braking and put the brakes full on for you are better than most people. I think it’s a very interesting point on whether you trust the technology or plan for it to fail. I’ve not heard of ABS or brakes failing without a warning light coming on first. I’m not saying it can’t happen but isn’t it getting so rare you can ignore the possibility? Everything on a modern braking system has at least one level of redundancy doesn’t it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnK Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 This is kind of where I’m coming from. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/11410261/Driverless-car-beats-racing-driver-for-first-time.htmlI’m not claiming faster is better and I’m not claiming a track is a real representation of driving on roads. But if technology can beat the best drivers in their domain where will it be in 10, 20, 50 years?I’m ashamed to admit it but I’ve had an accident avoided by technology. I would have gone into the back of another car if the radar on my car hadn’t sensed it and braked for me. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grendel Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 1 hour ago, vanessan said: There used to be one in Maidstone, has that gone do you know? I think it was a police run facility, I went on it about 10 years ago. The one I am thinking of is a morrisons now, but I do see they have a new one round the back roads not far from the original location. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FairTmiddlin Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 3 hours ago, chameleon said: more of an antique EXCUSE ME I RESEMBLE THAT REMARK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 3 hours ago, ZimbiIV said: I used to have TVR's, the only safety device was the nut behind the wheel. Drive them wrong and the Darwin Awards kick in. paul Brings back fond memories of my Chimaera, just when you thought you had mastered it it showed that you hadn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZimbiIV Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 Try a Tamora, that had been a bit tweaked, 425 bhp in a car weighing less than a tonne. I had to give it up my bad ankle couldn't cope with the competition clutch! paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 5 minutes ago, ZimbiIV said: Try a Tamora, that had been a bit tweaked, 425 bhp in a car weighing less than a tonne. I had to give it up my bad ankle couldn't cope with the competition clutch! paul The Chimaera was very carefully selected on the basis that I was young enough to be able to get into it and old enough to be able to insure it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZimbiIV Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 I had 2 chims, 1 normal Tamora. A bog standard Tuscan, and the very very leery Tamora. paul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 1 minute ago, ZimbiIV said: I had 2 chims, 1 normal Tamora. A bog standard Tuscan, and the very very leery Tamora. paul The only reason I sold mine was due to moving overseas, it was dry stored for a couple of years but then I worked out the cost per mile for when it was rarely used (something to avoided at all "costs" with boat ownership). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MauriceMynah Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 I had a catastrophic failure in my car a couple of months ago. The pump that powers all the power assisted steering, the power assisted brakes etc. failed and dropped off the serpentine belt. Irritating but not so much it stopped me getting home. What other gismo's would I have lost on a modern car? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WherryNice Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 Well on most of the stuff I work on (modern VW) losing the serpentine, or auxillary, belt would only stop the alternator and AC compressor as the PAS is electric on the vast majority. This means that apart from the ac it would all still work but only as long as the battery lasted............ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 6 minutes ago, WherryNice said: Well on most of the stuff I work on (modern VW) losing the serpentine, or auxillary, belt would only stop the alternator and AC compressor as the PAS is electric on the vast majority. This means that apart from the ac it would all still work but only as long as the battery lasted............ Try to do this on a modern VW ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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