So You Can Go Swimming!

[JohnK]

Mel quoted consultations with ( from memory) the BA, RNLI, local council, Waveney River Trust, Beccles Charter Weekend, Beccles Harbour Master. I would have liked the NSBA included in that list. 

I think she said “and others” or similar too
Ignoring opinions of the BA for a second (please try ) consulting the BA could be considered to be consulting boaters couldn’t it?

[JennyMorgan]

29 minutes ago, JohnK said:

 

I think she said “and others” or similar too
Ignoring opinions of the BA for a second (please try ) consulting the BA could be considered to be consulting boaters couldn’t it?

 

I have 'spoken' with Mel and she made it clear that she was unaware of the NSBA. As for the list of consultees the Waveney River Trust hasn't always shown itself to be that sharp on matters South of Geldeston, witness the furour regarding planning at St Olaves  on this forum a few years ago. The Trust is also the nominated charity in regard to this event The local council, on rivers matter, the less said the better! The BA's opinion deserves respect as even more so does the RNLI. The local harbour master, depends on which one you talk to! So no, the NSBA has not been consulted. As for the BA representing boaters, no, that's down to the Navigation Committee and I'm lead to believe that they have not yet been consulted. I think it important that the Broads Angling Strategy Group is added to the list of potential or actual consultees. I can't help feeling that the enthusiasm for this event has overridden any possible objections. The BA has a duty to look after the interests of navigators and that probably is the way forward. No harm in reminding them!

[JohnK]

If the Navigation committee or the NSBA haven’t been consulted and aren’t going to be consulted (there’s still a lot of time between now and July) then I’d agree there’s cause for concern.
But there’s a fairly significant “IF” in there.
If the intention is to consult one or both of those organisations is there still cause for concern?

[JennyMorgan]

3 minutes ago, JohnK said:

If the Navigation committee or the NSBA haven’t been consulted and aren’t going to be consulted (there’s still a lot of time between now and July) then I’d agree there’s cause for concern.
But there’s a fairly significant “IF” in there.
If the intention is to consult one or both of those organisations is there still cause for concern?

That depends on the outcome!! That aside, and in fairness to Mel, that is cutting it mighty fine. The consultee route is a long winded affair.

[Vaughan]

36 minutes ago, JohnK said:

Ignoring opinions of the BA for a second (please try ) consulting the BA could be considered to be consulting boaters couldn’t it?

No.

The BA is responsible for its geographical area, known as the Broads. Their 4th (and hopefully not minor) responsibility is to navigation. This falls to the navigation committee who, it seems, have not been consulted by the organisers of this event.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, vanessan said:

Mel quoted consultations with ( from memory) the BA, RNLI, local council, Waveney River Trust, Beccles Charter Weekend, Beccles Harbour Master. I would have liked the NSBA included in that list. 

If we look at what was actually said:

I have addressed numerous safety concerns raised by this forum already which have been documented within risk assessments, normal operations procedures, an emergency action plan, and go/no go criteria. All those documents have been assessed or are being assessed by the Broads Authority, insurers and the RNLI to name a few. ...................................................... The Broads Authority have been very clear that we co-exist with all other river users. 

That does prompt a number of questions:

Who are the others?

Who has responded & what was their response?

Are any of these entities legally obligated to sanction the event as being safe?

Was BA's response limited to the comment that the event must co-exist with all other river users, nothing else?

Until some specific answers and explanations are made available other than "It is safe",  little weight is being added to support the case that it is in fact "safe" to proceed as planned. 

[Springsong]

If the BA have been consulted from the beginning wouldn't it have been logical for the BA to have officially informed the navigation  committee  or do the senior management not speak to t'others.

[JohnK]

Until some specific answers and explanations are made available other than "It is safe",  little weight is being added to support the case that it is in fact "safe" to proceed as planned. 

Aren’t we back to does that need to be done here and even if it’s not displayed anywhere does that mean it hasn’t been done?
Wouldn’t we assume the BA (and others) would need to be confident it’s safe and if they are shouldn’t we be satisfied (ignoring the “I don’t trust the BA” part )?

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, springsong said:

If the BA have been consulted from the beginning wouldn't it have been logical for the BA to have officially informed the navigation  committee  or do the senior management not speak to t'others.

Surely no more or no less than any other BA consultation? 

[JohnK]

That depends on the outcome!! That aside, and in fairness to Mel, that is cutting it mighty fine. The consultee route is a long winded affair.

You only answered one of the two questions

[vanessan]

I notice from their website that Waveney Stardust is advertising short trips from Beccles on 1 July as part of the Beccles Charter Weekend. I have no idea how far their short trips take them but no doubt at some point the boat will encounter the swimmers. Just another bit of river traffic of course. 

[Guest]

31 minutes ago, JohnK said:

 

Aren’t we back to does that need to be done here and even if it’s not displayed anywhere does that mean it hasn’t been done?
Wouldn’t we assume the BA (and others) would need to be confident it’s safe and if they are shouldn’t we be satisfied (ignoring the “I don’t trust the BA” part )?

 

I would hope that we could start with the premise that we all have the freedom to do what we want where we want, it is only when someone empowered says you can't, because for example: that is my land or we have a legal obligation to ensure that what you do is safe or what you are doing will interfere with the enjoyment or existence of others.

Those who do not believe that this event is safe are I believe are looking for clarity not assumption on how it is possible to mix swimmers and motor boats in close proximity plus some other concerns, safely. Measures are possible such as zoning part of the river, closing the river to motor boats or holding the event where there are no motor boats etc. etc., could satisfy the safety concerns.

That does open the risk of transferring the focus from the safety aspect of the event, to that of being unhappy with the measures, such as "I do not believe it is acceptable to close the entire river to river traffic" but at least the safety issue will be resolved which is my primary concern.   

[JennyMorgan]

In many respects not a comparable event but a few years ago there was a near disaster at Southwold. If nothing else it illustrates that the unexpected can and does happen at the best planned swimming event.

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/video-dramatic-rescue-at-southwold-after-100-swimmers-get-into-trouble-1-2211116

 

[Bound2Please]

24 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

In many respects not a comparable event but a few years ago there was a near disaster at Southwold. If nothing else it illustrates that the unexpected can and does happen at the best planned swimming event.

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/video-dramatic-rescue-at-southwold-after-100-swimmers-get-into-trouble-1-2211116

 

Maybe that was the reason for the pier to pier swim dying a death here????

[JennyMorgan]

3 minutes ago, Bound2Please said:

Maybe that was the reason for the pier to pier swim dying a death here????

Possibly, if it has.

[JennyMorgan]

Just a thought, especially as competition swimmers seem to be face down for at least two strokes and that they also expel air face down. A long time ago a daughter of mine contracted meningitis, thought by one eminent specialist to have been triggered by weil's disease.

https://www.independent.ie/entertainment/tv-radio/david-walliams-suffering-from-weils-disease-after-swim-26776444.html

[Hylander]

Just read this post is locked - is it?

[Bound2Please]

No its not Monica

[marshman]

I am a bit surprised that after 22 pages that anyone can still think of  additional reasons why they believe this should not go ahead! To be honest I am surprised that you all bother to speculate as you do - don't all fishermen face the prospects of Weil's disease and why even mention Waveney Stardust when I suspect you have not even spoken to them about the route - how do you know they are not going to other way for example??

And John - I am surprised you are still standing up to the battering?? You are clearly a glutton for punishment!  Me?? I think I will just go away again for a bit until the fire has burned out!!

[Guest]

9 minutes ago, marshman said:

I am a bit surprised that after 22 pages that anyone can still think of  additional reasons why they believe this should not go ahead! To be honest I am surprised that you all bother to speculate as you do - don't all fishermen face the prospects of Weil's disease and why even mention Waveney Stardust when I suspect you have not even spoken to them about the route - how do you know they are not going to other way for example??

And John - I am surprised you are still standing up to the battering?? You are clearly a glutton for punishment!  Me?? I think I will just go away again for a bit until the fire has burned out!!

Marsh man given what yiu have written elsewhere on this subject I'm surprised to find you back on this thread , I do believe you said the subject wasn't worthy of discussion , as for John its entirely up to him really hardly a reason to call him a glutton for punishment although I'm well aware that yiu have had an easy ride elsewhere basically because most member's operate on the northern rivers hence the event will in no way impede on their use of the river on the day of the event if indeed it actually takes place and that might be down to simply economics and nothing else .

As for the waveney stardust where else would you imagine it would be cruising to it won't go under the bridge at beccles will it .

To me this is stirring up trouble for the sake of it and had you met some opposition elsewhere I'm sure you would be concentrating your efforts there .

[JohnK]

And John - I am surprised you are still standing up to the battering?? You are clearly a glutton for punishment!  Me?? I think I will just go away again for a bit until the fire has burned out!!

Me John?
I’ve got a few days off work and need to keep my hand in at arguing with people who are clearly wrong but don’t realise. It’s like missionary work

[marshman]

Ricardo - the reason why I have not always contributed is well documented on another thread but surely you would agree that it is nice to hear from me occasionally!! In fact I will probably be down there around that time and I would have no objection whatsoever to the navigation being closed to me for, say, 3 hours , to let others enjoy the Broads!

However don't all jump on this to hope to lure me back into this discussion as it won't work - I may read bits but will not get sucked back into the discussion full time!! That is of course my right to do as I please and to pick and chose, as indeed it is yours!

Missionary work?? I like that  but as the evenings get lighter I find I am not able to be glued as much as some!

[JohnK]

but surely you would agree that it is nice to hear from me occasionally!!

It would be nicer to hear from you more often but I understand why you don’t post more frequently.

[JennyMorgan]

Marsh, our disagreements are well known and once again I have to disagree with you and on two counts. You might be prepared to sacrifice three hours of what is your right to navigate but in doing so you might be depriving someone else of their right. Maybe that three hours is important to someone else, remembering the maxim that time and tide wait for no man. On the second count, and perhaps more importantly, once a right is lost it is damnably hard to regain it. If the river is closed for this event then where next?

[dnks34]

I have noticed whats been posted elsewhere and wasnt suprised that  the discussion turned to what they thought of posters here rather than discussing the point in hand.

Some people like to make out they are all tolerating in the hope of making others loose face but you can bet your bottom dollar the first time something comes along that they care about or directly impedes their activities they will be up in arms about it. 

If the July event turns out succesful just watch before you know it for 2019 there will be the Ant Swim, the Bure & Thurne swim culminating in the 3 rivers Swim.....

Aslong as its not in their backyard is that how the saying goes.