So You Can Go Swimming!

[Vaughan]

4 minutes ago, smellyloo said:

Previously I have seen accusations of bullying and wondered where.

However this time I have been on the minority side supporting the swimming event and I have seen how some posts can make you feel that you shouldn't be expressing such a foolhardy view. Almost a feeling of ridicule.

Now I should make it plain that there are a few well argued, eloquent posts expressing their concern, the bullying style posts tend to be posted by followers of these.

I don't for one moment think these individuals mean to be bullies but the wording is clumsy and can be interpreted as such.

I actually don't care what people say to me and the bullying comments make me even more compelled to have my say but I couldn't let the concerns raised by others be dismissed is such an off hand way.

Maybe we should all stop and think ...... are we sure that we show the correct respect to those who express opposing views

I don't disagree but let's discuss forum behaviour on a different thread, as the mods have requested.

I think this subject is being very well discussed and it is important that we should not divert from it.

 

[Wussername]

1 minute ago, Vaughan said:

I don't disagree but let's discuss forum behaviour on a different thread, as the mods have requested.

I think this subject is being very well discussed and it is important that we should not divert from it.

 

I agree.

Andrew

[smellyloo]

6 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

I don't disagree but let's discuss forum behaviour on a different thread, as the mods have requested.

I think this subject is being very well discussed and it is important that we should not divert from it.

 

Sorry Vaughan I have great respect for your views but I think it is justified to raise these concerns on the thread that spawned the issue.

[smellyloo]

10 minutes ago, Ricardo said:

Hang on , as all member's know bullying is against TOS so my first question is have you reported the said posts and trust me they do get delt with .

Sadly some of the posts that can be interpreted as bullying are posted by mods. I commented on one but I guess this was deemed to be incorrect.

[JennyMorgan]

Loo, a difficult one to answer, perhaps. I'm not sure that any of us are actually anti the concept of the event itself, just the timing (high season) and the location (unsuitable). Vaughan has wisely suggested the Yare and had Mel suggested that I feel that support would have been near universal, or at least there would have been next to no objection. On the other hand when the Authority became involved with Whitlingam Lakes much of the justification was that such events would be hosted there. My apologies to Mel if she feels unwelcome or that she's the victim but we are talking safety and just how important is that?

[grendel]

I have now created a new topic for the side topic of forum behaviour, we have raised the issue here, and it will only derail the main discussion here if we continue it here.

[Maxwellian]

Peter. Feel free to move or copy my post on the new one. Sorry for going off topic.

[Islander]

I've just cleared my text box as it has all been said. Do I think this event in its present format should go ahead. No. That's my honest opinion. 

Will I be in the Beccles area that weekend. Not if this event goes ahead.

Colin

[KaptinKev]

1 hour ago, JohnK said:

 

Now, I suspect I’m going to get a lot of posts telling me how wrong I am (probably by mods too). Of course I’m wrong, I hold a minority view. I’m probably an idiot.

 

You're not an idiot John, you just need thicker skin for the forums. Just take a page out of Ricardo's book perhaps!

[JohnK]

You're not an idiot John, you just need thicker skin for the forums. Just take a page out of Ricardo's book perhaps!

I’m not complaining about my treatment.
I’ve clearly not explained my concerns very well. Sorry.

[JohnK]

Going back to the swimming ....
I want to be 100% clear on my opinion.
I do wonder about holding the event, I am concerned about the safety. However, I believe that the BA, RNLI and other consulted organisations that have or will sign off the event are much better placed and knowledgeable than me and MOST other people here to judge that.

[grendel]

13 minutes ago, JohnK said:

Going back to the swimming ....
I want to be 100% clear on my opinion.
I do wonder about holding the event, I am concerned about the safety. However, I believe that the BA, RNLI and other consulted organisations that have or will sign off the event are much better placed and knowledgeable than me and MOST other people here to judge that.

do all the consulted organisations know the section of river as well as some of the posters here though, have all of them taken to the water and surveyed the route for possible problems, OK some of the organisations will have people familiar with the section of river, but have those people been involved in the discussions. or has the 'idea' been proposed and given the go ahead as a good idea by some committee unrelated to the navigation, with the thought that the navigation team will have a good look at it before the event.

I dont know.

are some of the approvals being passed for instance by a committee that sees it like an event on the thames, well one river is much the same as another.

all this is speculation true, but we have people here who do know the section of river, some quite well, that are saying its not the right place.

[JennyMorgan]

John, I do respect the point that you are making. Depending on how things develop, or not, freedom of information requests might be a way forward. I have sat in on BA Nav Com meetings when it has become quite clear that the organiser is expected to make the H&S assessments and to submit their reports to the BA. I was an auxiliary with HM Coastguard and therefor worked with the RNLI, despite that I have no knowledge of their inner workings, especially on H&S! I could make a guess but I might well be wrong! Best contact their regional office.

[grendel]

A thought occurred to me while I was typing the above, do we have figures for the average number of boats per hour that travel on the waveney to and from Beccles during that part of the season.

how does this number compare for instance with the number of boats per hour on the thames at henley during one of their swimming events.

If we had some numbers we could work out the number of boat / swimmer interactions (ie how often will a boat and a swimmer pass each other) for each event to gain an appreciation of the similarities (or not).

[batrabill]

Isn’t “I don’t know “ the key point here? 

[JennyMorgan]

Valid point, Peter G, depends to a very large extent on the weather I suppose.

[grendel]

3 minutes ago, batrabill said:

Isn’t “I don’t know “ the key point here? 

Its a key point, that applies to both sides of the discussion,

if indeed nobody knows, then continuation of the discussion with both sides presenting their arguments is valid.

If somebody knows for certain and can present the evidence however, then we have an answer and the discussion becomes unnecessary.

[Maxwellian]

Have we got access to the safety case by any chance? 

[vanessan]

9 hours ago, JennyMorgan said:

Sorry, I missed that first time around. I have absolutely no objection to folk raising the same points as I have. However I believe that a letter or e-mail will carry more weight if it appears to be an individual communication. My advice is that people should write their own letters, even if they rehash and raise the same points I have. 

Thank you JM. My thought was that people could refer to your letter whilst making their own comments, email to the BA would probably suit most. I certainly shall and I hope others who have the same feelings will also. 

[vanessan]

Once the BA have responded to any communications they receive, anti or pro, we will hopefully have the answers to some of the points raised. I can’t believe this was all signed off without rigorous examination of the idea but who knows? It might have seemed like such a good idea at the time that the rubber stamp came out straight away. I feel sure it won’t be too long before answers start appearing. 

[JennyMorgan]

1 hour ago, vanessan said:

Once the BA have responded to any communications they receive, anti or pro, we will hopefully have the answers to some of the points raised. I can’t believe this was all signed off without rigorous examination of the idea but who knows? It might have seemed like such a good idea at the time that the rubber stamp came out straight away. I feel sure it won’t be too long before answers start appearing. 

I actually think that you have nailed this one!

[Hylander]

Peter wrote:-

I note that on a popular Broads related facebook page there is a very real suggestion that boaters should consider blockading this event and hogging the 24hr moorings.

Ready with tin hat on .........   doesnt this already happen every weekend of the season at Brammerton Woods End,  

 

[JawsOrca]

Oh geez where do I start, ignoring the strong opinions (good and bad).

The broads are not mine, I own a boat which I am given the opportunity to pay a (small) fee to keep on the broads and use the 120 miles of inland riverways at my will.  Others also enjoy the Broads, including walkers, fisherfolk, sailey people, people who holiday in tents (I have no idea why), people who are very very very smart and hire boats, and people who like swimming. 

I have no problem whatsoever if for one day a year, a couple of miles of a underused and under-supported stretch of the broads is used by another group of broads users to enjoy.  If it's a charity event I may even try to find the time to visit this and at least spectate and show my support.  This happens on the broads already, I.e the 3 rivers race, power boat racing.  I also have no problem if I am asked to proceed with caution or even pause my route for a time for safety reasons at any point on the broads as the authorities or I see fit. 

With regards to safety concerns, Do I believe swimming on the broads in general is a good idea. 50/50, I don't believe swimming on  a busy part of the river is smart, we have experienced swimmers at how hill before (of which I sounded our 160db airhorn continuously for 20 seconds, put the boat into neutral, prepared crew for impact with moored boats and then moved off once I was happy it was safe for all to do so, I didn't voice my thoughts with the swimmers as they chose to do that and I knew how to react). Ignoring health concerns, show you have a little paddle on a broad on a summers day on a broad? maybe.. Perhaps the best advise is to follow the BA's advice, I can't swim really, my biggest fear would be ending up in the water, near boats. 

Do I believe a commercial enterprise should do a swim event again on a couple of miles of a underused and under-supported stretch of the broads? 50/50; anything which brings people to the southern broads is a good thing in my book. As I mentioned, I support minor closures of the river, I wouldn't like to see large parts of the broads closed to boaters as yes I would worry about the introduction of sanford. I think safety to everyone, must come first, considerations must be given for inexperianced boating crews which is clearly an issue in the broads.  Am I a little unsupportive, selfishly, that this is a commercial activity and it will cause closure of a bit of the river that i will not use as my boat is not there?, yes, but again only because of the mistrust I have of the BA's position.  Would it be different if it was a charity event? Yes, it would have my 100% support.

For the southern broads, I hope the event goes forward, the southern broads gets a ton of visitor support and we see it a popular annual event, but with adequate and careful consideration for safety and consideration for all.

I hope that clarifies my position on this and thus I'm not automatically seen to agree or disagree with generalisations associated with the user group.

[vanessan]

51 minutes ago, JawsOrca said:

and it will cause closure of a bit of the river that i will not use as my boat is not there

Closure is not planned hence the dangers. 

[stumpy]

Having I) seen the effect of a propellor/leg coming together and 2) gone to salvage a round black fender in the middle of Barton that turned out to be a buffoon in a wetsuit c/w hood, I'll be keeping well clear while praying it all goes smoothly. Can you imagine the headlines in the red-tops if some champagne-swilling hooray Henry in a gin-palace minced an innocent sportsman? 

ETA: especially in Britain's newest National Park (sorry!)