Newbie Looking For Advice...

[FarmerTerryuk]

Hi,

I have had holidays on the broads periodically over many years and we are planning one for early September.

We have a boat hired from Silverline in Brundall, and I am trying to plot a weeks trip, working round the tide tables, but that week (Sept 5th-12th) I am struggling.

Now, I know this is an impossible question to answer definitively, but I’m just looking for a bit of guidance.

The tide runs very fast at Reedham, for instance, and it would be silly to battle against it at it’s fastest so –

 

1.                   In relation to high / low /slack tides, when do the tides run at their fastest? And

2.                   by Brundall, where it’s weaker, is it sensible to plan to travel against the tide?

 

Thanks for any hints, tips, or advice.

[OldBerkshireBoy]

  

When you say silly to battle the tide is this in relation to amount of fuel used? I ask because all of the boats at Silverline are equiped to do battle against the tide. I would be more inclined to plan journeys to how long might it take to arrive in good time to find a mooring.

https://forum.norfolkbroadsnetwork.com/handy-information/journey-times-cruising-distances/

[Broads01]

Hi there and welcome. As you've identified, the tide does travel faster the nearer you are to Great Yarmouth. It depends how much mileage you want to do, so if you're staying South for example, by all means plan around the tides because going with them will cost you less in fuel. However, all hireboats are more than capable of making decent progress against the tide even with a fast flow at Reedham or St Olaves for example. In those locations it's not so much the timing that matters its how you manage the tide, especially when mooring. Always always come in to a mooring against the tide, even if the flow doesn't seem strong. 

[Chelsea14Ian]

Just work with the tides,try not to fight  them.If you do you will us more fuel and its hard work.Silverline are very good ,gets some advice from them.Very well maintained  boats.You may see us ,we are based at Cove Sweetkingfisher.

Welcome Ian

[MaceSwinger]

Best practice would always be to try and cruise with the tide, but that doesn't mean you can't cruise against it. You'll just use more fuel. Tides at Great Yarmouth tend to run quickest at the bottom of the ebb, just before slack water. I always aim to go through Great Yarmouth an hour after low water, a period called low water slack.

Incidentally, I have a week next month out of Silverline, and the tide timings aren't their most cooperative, but I'm still planning on getting north too. Cruising time charts are usually quite conservative on timings (with the caveat that I've not used the specific one that Old Berkshire Boy linked to) but I wouldn't go off of anything else. Check the sunset times for when you're there and aim to be moored up at least an hour before, keeping in mind (if you're crossing Breydon Water) that the first moorings after Great Yarmouth are quite a stomp in either direction.

[OldBerkshireBoy]

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.aweigh&hl=en_GB

Good little app to have on the phone or tablet, ok you can`t see weeks ahead but still handy to have.

Do you have a handover time yet guy`s? Heard the last one of the day at Silverline this weekend has been 5pm or so.

[MaceSwinger]

17 minutes ago, OldBerkshireBoy said:

Do you have a handover time yet guy`s? Heard the last one of the day at Silverline this weekend has been 5pm or so.

We're away W/C 17th of August and as yet we only have the initially quoted time of 5pm. I'm hoping that over the next few weeks that may change as yards get into the swing of it, but we're preparing to spend our first night in the yard. Not something I'd ever do (nor something I've ever done for that matter) but then I've also never spent a night in Brundall before, so I suppose it's not that bad!

I worked out if we can get away by 1:30 we can get across Breydon and be at Stracey in time foe dinner on our first night...but that'd be doing well even under normal circumstances! (I think the earliest I've ever got away was around 11am, solo hire from Brinks a few years ago and it was the first outing for my boat, Sonata, that season!)

[Chelsea14Ian]

You could Moor at Coldham Hall Takes all of 10 minutes  to get there.

[MaceSwinger]

Just now, Chelsea14Ian said:

You could Moor at Coldham Hall Takes all of 10 minutes  to get there.

I had thought about it but you know what pub and popular moorings are like, if we really don't get away until 5pm or after we won't stand a chance. I also thought about booking a mooring at Surlingham, but if we get away earlier I won't want to stay there. I've done a table with departure times and the furthest we can reasonably expect to get before we need to put in for the night. My wife thinks I'm over thinking it

[OldBerkshireBoy]

10 minutes ago, MaceSwinger said:

We're away W/C 17th of August and as yet we only have the initially quoted time of 5pm. I'm hoping that over the next few weeks that may change as yards get into the swing of it, but we're preparing to spend our first night in the yard. Not something I'd ever do (nor something I've ever done for that matter) but then I've also never spent a night in Brundall before, so I suppose it's not that bad!

Choice of two pubs both with food, chippie & chinese takeaways (not great) and expensive eat in Italian. Oh, and two Co-Op`s for stocking up.

[MaceSwinger]

1 minute ago, OldBerkshireBoy said:

Choice of two pubs both with food, chippie & chinese takeaways (not great) and expensive eat in Italian. Oh, and two Co-Op`s for stocking up.

With the way this year is going, both with and without the 'Rona, I'm using my break and the planning of it as a much needed distraction, so all those locations have been internet-scouted  I've eaten in the pub by the level crossing before (The Yare?) and was very happy with it, and also the cafe at the NYA basin too, so plenty of choices. I'd already planned on a quick trip to the co-op to buy the ice cream!

Apologies to Farmer Terry, we appear to be shifting away from his original question

[Chelsea14Ian]

We've spent over 11 years at Brundall and before that hired from Silverline and Alpha craft. The Yare is a interesting  pub ,to be honest  will rarely  eat then any more.They never change the menu.Its okay if you seldom eat there.Still will go for a pint.Never  bin.to the Ram heard good reports of it.The Chinese is okay.If you want to drive the choice  is yours. At present no dought  you will need to pre book.

 

[JanetAnne]

I find Farmer Terry's question is quite interesting actually.

If it is slack water at GYYS at, for example, 13:00 what time would it be slack water at Reedham? My guess is about 1 1/2 hours later as per the normal tides running that much behind GYYS but is the flow also timed the same?

[Tempest]

The tide timetable looks favourable for a good early morning crossing with slack water a good few hours after sunrise

I love a crossing early in the morning as you have the rest of the day to enjoy and can get a good way up the Bure, Ant or Thurne

http://www.norfolk-broads.org/tides/tide_report.asp

[Chelsea14Ian]

My navigater Marina my wife always works out the tides. We tend to hit Braydon at low slack to get under the bridges at Yarmouth. We are 8.6.Then the tide works with us going along the Bure.

[MaceSwinger]

18 minutes ago, Chelsea14Ian said:

We've spent over 11 years at Brundall and before that hired from Silverline and Alpha craft. 

It's weird really Ian, as a family we've used Silverline recently, but Brinks for quite a few years before that. But the only reason we moved to Brinks was because of the demise of Alpha, and in turn we only used Alpha because of the demise of Bee's. But in all that time we never once ate in The Yare until 2 years ago!

15 minutes ago, JanetAnne said:

If it is slack water at GYYS at, for example, 13:00 what time would it be slack water at Reedham? My guess is about 1 1/2 hours later as per the normal tides running that much behind GYYS but is the flow also timed the same?

I'm not sure, but I believe the further from GY you get the less pronounced LWS is, as the tides are always playing "catch-up". I can't say I've ever given it a second thought though really. I look at LWS in GY to make navigating the bridges and then around the yellow post a bit easier (having seen an old Ricko's tub pouring black smoke out desperately fighting the tide some years ago) and it's not really an issue anywhere else.

[TostockTimonier]

Hi Farmer Terry welcome to the forum, we are picking up from Silverline on Friday the 4th of September and we will  stay south until Monday morning and head north on the 08:23 low water slack tide at Yarmouth. Then stay north until Thursday and come back south on the 10:11 low water slack at Yarmouth, this will give us ample time to get to Bramerton Common or the Comissioners Cut for the last nights stay.

[FarmerTerryuk]

1 hour ago, TostockTimonier said:

this will give us ample time to get to Bramerton Common or the Comissioners Cut for the last nights stay.

Hi - I wasn't planning on going through Yarmouth this time - I rather prefer the south, so I would like to get up to Beccles - and can I get to Geldeston? Is that navigable?

Also, most of my planning revolves round which pubs I want to stay at, but spending Friday night at Bramerton sounds like a possibility.

"tend to run quickest at the bottom of the ebb, just before slack water."

That's one of the things I was after - thanks.

There's all sorts of information there - thanks to all. I obviously need to keep on top of the actual takeover times. The difference between departing at 2:30 and departing at 5:30 has large implications for planning.

[Chelsea14Ian]

To get too Geldeston depends on the height  of the boat. If you can get under the bridge  at Beccles  its lovely. 

[MaceSwinger]

3 hours ago, FarmerTerryuk said:

 ...and can I get to Geldeston? Is that navigable?

As Ian says this will depend on your boat's air draft. Which boat do you have?

As for departure times; I may have over planned slightly, but I've made up a chart (because I love a good chart) showing the different departure times from around a very optimistic 1pm at 30 minute intervals with the furthest I could reasonably expect to get, allowing to be alongside no later than an hour before sunset.

[Poppy]

7 hours ago, FarmerTerryuk said:

Hi,

I have had holidays on the broads periodically over many years and we are planning one for early September.

We have a boat hired from Silverline in Brundall, and I am trying to plot a weeks trip, working round the tide tables, but that week (Sept 5th-12th) I am struggling.

Now, I know this is an impossible question to answer definitively, but I’m just looking for a bit of guidance.

The tide runs very fast at Reedham, for instance, and it would be silly to battle against it at it’s fastest so –

 

1.                   In relation to high / low /slack tides, when do the tides run at their fastest? And

2.                   by Brundall, where it’s weaker, is it sensible to plan to travel against the tide?

 

Thanks for any hints, tips, or advice.

This is best answered by reference to 'The rule of twelfths '.

During the first hour, the water level rises by 1/12th of the total tidal range. In the second hour, it rises by an additional 2/12ths of the total. During the third and fourth hour, it rises by 3/12ths. Then the increase begins to slow down. In the fifth hour, the water only rises by 2/12ths, and in the sixth hour it rises by 1/12th. The pattern is 1,2,3,3,2,1.

So the middle period of the (approx) six hour tide cycle is when the run of tide is at its strongest.  Tru for any tidal affected area.

The tidal range at Brundall is anything from very little to a metre or so. Punching the tide there shouldn't make any appreciable difference I should think.

[FarmerTerryuk]

51 minutes ago, MaceSwinger said:

As Ian says this will depend on your boat's air draft. Which boat do you have?

Silver Solano

[FarmerTerryuk]

41 minutes ago, Poppy said:

This is best answered by reference to 'The rule of twelfths '.

During the first hour, the water level rises by 1/12th of the total tidal range. In the second hour, it rises by an additional 2/12ths of the total. During the third and fourth hour, it rises by 3/12ths. Then the increase begins to slow down. In the fifth hour, the water only rises by 2/12ths, and in the sixth hour it rises by 1/12th. The pattern is 1,2,3,3,2,1.

So the middle period of the (approx) six hour tide cycle is when the run of tide is at its strongest.  Tru for any tidal affected area.

The tidal range at Brundall is anything from very little to a metre or so. Punching the tide there shouldn't make any appreciable difference I should think.

Thanks Poppy - that's a really good rule, and worth remembering. And the advice about the tide at Brundal is very welcome too.

[MaceSwinger]

16 minutes ago, FarmerTerryuk said:

Silver Solano

Solano is a Silverline 40 which, according to their website, will pass under all bridges except Potter Heigham. The caveat always being that it depends on tides and weather. I'm not entirely sure of the air draft on that boat, but Beccles Old bridge is the one you need to get under for Geldeston, and that's listed as 6'6" at high water, but you can get up to 2'6" variation. I'm pretty sure your boat will easily clear that at low tide (with the canopy and screens down as you should with all bridges).

[YnysMon]

We very much recommend going through to Geldeston if you can get under Beccles Old Bridge, it’s one of our favourite stretches on the river, and we love The Wherry Inn (you can moor in the Dyke that leads to Rowancraft). 

MaceSwinger...if you are staying overnight in Brundall don’t overlook takeaway options in villages near Brundall. E.g. I’ve heard good things about the Thai takeaway that The Kings Head in Blofield do.