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jillR

tips on crossing breydon

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Hmmm, Tips on crossing Breydon eh?

Right! Now I'm going to do the unforgivable! I'm going to criticize quite a few of the posters on this thread. (he says, putting on a tin hat).

Tips are usually intended for the novices or at least those with limited experience of the issues so...

 

GYYS = Great Yarmouth Yacht Station (the last safe mooring before Breydon Water).

"I would leave Reedham 1 hour before slack water GH. (That's at LW GH which they give you at Reedham)."

LW = Low water (not equal to "Slack water"  Not sure about "GH" though, "Good Heavens" perhaps!

"Slack water at YS".  YS = Yacht station, short for GYYS... see above!

 

John (Hockham Admiral) said ...

"Just to stop confusion. (as if there is any!), slack water at GH is NOT LW +1.00.... more like LW +1.30..
Thus if you want to arrive at Slack Water you need to arrive ONE and a HALF hours after LOW WATER..

So perhaps that's more likely to explain it to new-comers?
"

 

I think not John.

 

The intention of this post is not to upset anyone but to point something out by way of illustration. Some novices will be very confused by some of the posts. It would be better if on threads advising novices we stopped using abbreviations ASAP! 

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We to had a problem going over breydon a  couple of years ago we had a problem with our outboard on our old boat,therefore leaving a little later.We arrived at breydon in slight cloud with no hint of rough weather,however when we started to cross it became very rough i went over full speed,Marina first mate looked very white and holding on tight.Once crossed we made for oulton after mooring up Marina kissed the grould.Having said that crossing is nearly always fun but must be treated with respect. :Sailing

 

Lol Mum goes white when the wash of a dinghy goes past though dad!

 

I hate breydon water.. each time we go over its a millpond :( Next year we need to book the trips on the back end of a "hurricane" and go back and forth! We have been out with 3 meter swells on a fishing boat and I was at the helm.. couldnt stop laughing .. brilliant fun!

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Young Alan its even more fun in a force 8 crossing from Rotterdam to Hull  :naughty:

Or stuck outside Larne Harbour for 10 hours!

 

cheers Iain

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Young Alan its even more fun in a force 8 crossing from Rotterdam to Hull  :naughty:

Or stuck outside Larne Harbour for 10 hours!

 

cheers Iain

 

One day Iain... One day!!

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Oh BTW Alan I was on the P&O Ferry... Pride of Rotterdam and admired the kids doing their 45 minute show, at times trying to dance on one leg  :naughty: It required perfect timing to get to the bar and back without spilling the drinks!!!

 

cheers Iain.

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Reading this thread reminds me when my family would meet with friends who lived on the south coast.  Once the greetings were done the next order of the day was ‘which route did you take’ and naturally whatever my father said would get a sigh from his friend ‘I’d not have taken the A23 should have gone on the A24’.

 

It is much the same with Breydon Water – I am sure you could have a rather heated discussion in the pub about what time you crossed and whose tide table you used.

 

My main consideration usually when crossing is the bridge height’s at Yarmouth – since the difference between low water and slack water is not that great as far as clearance under the bridges go, I aim to arrive at low water when coming down the Bure.  

 

As long as I get Acle to Reedham, or Reedham to Acle without going aground I am happy – in fact my main concern is not tides and currents and channels and markers but concentrating to stay away from the shelving banks on the river Bure and getting stuck there.

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Just to follow on from Robin there (I know Robin you are up there a lot more than me though so I'm sure you know this but just for any newbie readers ;) ... I religiously aim to hit yarmouth 1.5 hours after low tide for me I really hate beating the tide.. beating the tide is such a bad idea.. not only the waste of fuel but it really doesn't do the engine any good (considering how under powered broads boats are and you need to think what will happen if the engine gives up the ghost just as you turn the corner and give it full throttle!).  

 

(This may also be down to owning a sailing boat where even a bit of wind on the bow with the engine at full throttle and the boat would go backwards (We changed the prop in the end!)...

 

But as long as you are after low water your main concern isn't the bridge height (because we all know there's plenty of room) but the strength of the water running through there.  

 

When my folks boat had engine problems I proved the benefit (unintentionally) of this.. we ran from Horning to Brundall on tick over, catching the tide all the way and we used £23 worth of fuel! Normally the boat uses about £70 quid! that's a huge saving! (and when the only bill is the fuel bill its worth timing it properly! I'm soo tight!). 

 

(I know going north is a bit harder but an hour and half still works well just need a little more throttle :( )

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(and when the only bill is the fuel bill its worth timing it properly! I'm soo tight!). 

Ah young Alan, so you have Scottish blood in yer veins then :naughty:  :naughty:  :naughty:

 

cheers Iain.

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 in fact my main concern is not tides and currents and channels and markers but concentrating to stay away from the shelving banks on the river Bure and getting stuck there.

 

But surely, the tides/currents, SHOULD be a major concern, especially when coming down the Bure.  I thought that was why the advice is to time the passage for slack water rather than low water.  The speed of the current means that one has very little steerageway, and can easily lead to problems should unforseen circumstances require a rapid alteration of course.

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Yes Iain, Alan's dad ( Ian ) has some Scottish blood in him ( as he said single malt )  cheers .

 

And Alan you are soo tight, it was our money, but as for the £70, where did that come from?

 

Regards

 

Marina   :Stinky

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And Alan you are soo tight, it was our money, but as for the £70, where did that come from?

 

Oh eck a possible domestic! :norty:  :naughty:

 

cheers Iain

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Mother read the post! two guns  (sorry all lol :roll: ).. It says when I go across I wont beat the tide... ( and Dad said it normally costs £70 (and its £75 quid whenever we fill up at horning after 4 days..)...  are you offering to pay for our fuel when we are up next time? Awww thats soo sweet of you :party: .... xx lol

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I’m sorry if any newbie reads any of this and then tries to figure what the real ‘sound advice’ would be.

 

I only can speak for myself – that might not be wholly correct.

 

Kadensa yes, I am not too much bothered by what the state of tide/current is doing I check the tide table for the day look at when low water is predicted and then arrive at that time give or take about 15 minutes either side.

 

Take my recent trip down on Royale, arriving just after low water and as you would see on the video I did not find any of the trip worrying – even if I did have to stop half way between Acle and the Yarmouth get out in the rain and fix the windscreen wiper – that was the only thing that was not foreseeable or to plan.  On the return I arrived about 20 minutes earlier than I had wished – again nothing scary or worrying just the current was a little against me still.

 

It is not the case I just ‘leave without thought’ however – but my concern is arriving at Yarmouth to find not enough clearance under the bridges as long as that is sufficient clearance then I know I am not going to loose the top of the boat and all is well.  At low water I know there would be enough clearance under the bridges.

 

Talking of currents though, it does depend what boat you’re in - some are lighter with the same engines as larger boats, then some are restricted more than others – Omega was not restricted at all and with a 50 HP Nanni in a 31ft boat had a lot of punch and I would be very confident in that boat whatever the tide was doing than in something like Sunlit Horizon which was 38ft long but had a 38 HP engine, itself then restricted to just over 2,000 RPM – Despite that, it still made it through the full ebbing current on the Bure – albeit extremely slowly in 2012.

 

Anyway, as I said everyone has their opinions of what is correct and not - and it seems no matter what the tide table says you can more at Stracey Arms and see countless boats heading off down the river and I at least check and re-check to see if it is me who has read the tides wrong, but no they are just going off perhaps oblivious to what might be going on when they get to Yarmouth.

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Perhaps I am a bit wrong in the head but I used to love making the crossing if was a bit choppy , another thing that was usefull after plodding around the upper Ant for most of the time was to cross Breydon punching the tide ......get the engine flat - ok not very fuel efficient but a dam good work out for your engine

 

 

flatoutfin

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The problem I was referring to is when you're travelling with the tide down the Bure.  If you  reach the Yacht Station around low water, the ebb current is still flowing, which is why the tidetables given to hirers (or at least all  those I've seen) give the slack water passage time.  

 

Experienced helmsmen, for whom clearance at the bridges is the predominant consideration,  may choose to go through at low water. However, I am still of the opinion that for most people and certainly for the novice, the best time to go through Yarmouth is between one and two hours after the published low water time.

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Due to daylight we once came down the Bure 1 hour before low water. Through the yacht station at 5 mph in neutral!

However boats were pushing against the tide from passing the Stracey arms. There were far too many to have been moored at the yacht station so some, if not all must have crossed Breydon far earlier than us.

Once round the yellow marker and against the tide we were struggling to make 3mph upto the bridge and even the other side of Breydon we were only upto 4.5mph.

So yes there is a window of opportunity either side of slack water however in a low powered boat it will just take longer!

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Its a problem for all is that - you wont be coming down the bure on full engine revs and as you hit the crossflow don't be afraid to power the engine and at full tilt if you need to - it does work and I have never had a hireboat that cant  ....you can always correct your engine revs when you are in a more comfy position

 

 

Finny

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Due to daylight we once came down the Bure 1 hour before low water. Through the yacht station at 5 mph in neutral!

 

And that is exactly what I'm trying to highlight, not  what happens once you've 'turned the corner'.  If you're being swept down by the current at that speed there isn't  much time to react should you encounter an unexpected problem.

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I agree Kadensa, especially when travelling South. Slack is easy most of the time, low water I've found to be less so, before low water can be scary. I remember years ago when I was a teenager and my poor dad being scared out of his wits by the way the tide pulled us along. This isn't something you want at all.

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I totally agree that you do not want going down river before slack water, a fast running river is not good should anything go wrong. On Ranworth Breeze we have to do all of our calculations especially going down river into Yarmouth. We need 9ft 8inch with everything down so we have to look not only for the time for slack water but also the height of the low tides. Over the years we have found that we have a warning going by the number of rungs on the ladders approaching the Yacht Station if we can see 7 full rungs out of the water there is 10 foot of air draft at the bridges. The height boards are somewhat sparse going down river and the lower height markings are almost unreadable.

Coming up river is not an issue with height boards before and after the Yellow post.

Regards

Alan

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I keep reading what you all are saying for the tides at GY. Can I please check. We will be going over Breydon a week on Sunday. Low tide at GY is 7:49. Am I right in thinking to be going around and up at GY around 9:15, because I / we would go through around 9am, but the ebb is still strong coming down?

 

As Alan has said before I get the tide readings wrong. I love Breydon like a mill pond and watching the seals.

 

Many thanks.

 

Regards

Marina    :Stinky

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If 7:49 is the correct time (I have not checked) them that time should be ideal.

There is no rocket science to passing through Yarmouth as winds etc can change time tides on the day. You just aim for the most likely time to make the passage as smooth as possible :-)

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Marina, I assume you will be travelling from the south?  Your timing at GY looks pretty good to me, but bear in mind that. the smoothness of the passage over Breydon depends as much, if not more, on the direction and strength of the wind, as it does on the state of the tide. 

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Sorry, Marina, having re-read your posts I think I've confused myself as to which direction you're travelling.  Not that it matters - your timing sounds perfect,

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An easy experiment to demonstrate the difference between low and slack water and the currents experienced when travelling down the Bure through Great Yarmouth. -

 

First make a paper boat (don't worry what it looks like, there are no prizes for artistic achievement, thank goodness)

 

Fill the bath to a depth of +- 4ins /10cms (if you don't have a bath at home, a sink will do, although the experiment will not work so well).

 

Allow the water to settle and then place the paper boat in the bath at the farthest end from the plug, then remove the plug. As the water begins to empty, you should notice that the boat will move towards the outlet, slowly at first, then with increasing speed as it nears the plug hole. The water level will, of course drop.

 

When the boat is around half way down the length of the bath, turn on the tap(s). Immediately you will notice that the speed of the boat decreases and even though the water level may still drop slightly, it will do so at a slower rate. Now gradually increase the flow from the taps until the boat holds its position - that is 'slack water'.i.e. the force of the outflow through the plug is exactly balanced by that of the inflow from the taps. You should notice that the water level has risen (albeit slightly) from what was its lowest point (low water).

 

(It would probably be more effective if, instead of increasing the flow from the taps, which will cause turbulence, you were to partially block the plughole until the outflow and inflow forces are balanced).

 

Please note that this demonstration is not intended to mimic exactly the situation at GY, since the narrowing of the river there also causes the ebb current to flow faster, but, hopefully, it will give some idea of the principles involved.

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