Would You Hire A Boat Too Wide For The Ant And Chet?

[Broads01]

One of NYA's super luxury offerings is Evita:

https://www.hoseasons.co.uk/boat-holidays/nya-private-charter-nyap/evita-bh2740

It caught my eye on the latest series on the "2 Men on a Boat" channel because the interior and too deck are sumptuous to say the least. Trouble is, being 13 ft 9 wide the and almost 10 ft tall the Ant and Chet are out of bounds. Despite that, if money were no object I'd love to hire it (only £3600 + per week in August next year, mere pennies ahem). What do you think?

 

[Aboattime]

No not for me,i wont entertain a boat that wont go under Wroxham bridge let alone 2 rivers.Im old but thats my take on things.

[Gracie]

She's beautiful but so is the Chet and the Ant. I would much rather a boat that fits so to speak than a boat that restricts cruising.

I agree with Abouttime, the cruise from Wroxham bridge up to Coltishall is stunning. I would never want to miss out on that for the sake of luxury and space x

[RS2021]

It's not just those rivers. You can't take it on many smaller Broads as well. E.g Rockland, Surlingham etc. I think many of the places you can't go are places which make the Broads for me. So I'd say probably not, but... it is a nice boat.

What concerns me more it whether you are aware when you book. The Hoseasons Website is fairly clear. But try looking for any information on NYAs own Website. I have yet to find it and they even quote a similar boat as having a 3.78m beam which would mean it's not restricted.

[SwanR]

I would hire anything that’s the price I want with all the features I want as long as I’m fully aware of any limitations that brings. I’ve done a week on the north before without being able to go up the Ant or through any of the bridges. You can still have a great time. 

I was looking at Annabelle from NYA for next year until we got to the very end of the booking process and found some hidden costs that pushed it up too far as a total cost. 

[dom]

I view it like the boating equivalent of an Audi Q7 or Range Rover Sport. Technically excellent, but invariably used in the wrong context by people who choose it thinking it's superior, but actually have an inferior experience as a result.

Boats like that, Fair Regal, etc which push the limits of length, yet only manage to accomodate 4 people would really be better off on more commodious waterways. I've never experienced the Scottish or Irish waterways in person, but suspect they'd be more fitting there.

It's also just putting more pressure on moorings. Two of these take up the best part of 90ft, but only house 8. 3 more traditional 30ft boats fit the same space and house up to 18. I can't remember if it's that exact boat and video, but can recall the 2 Men having issues finding a mooring on at least one occasion.

 

[Mouldy]

I couldn’t hire it even if I could afford it.  The Ant and The Chet are two of my favourite rivers.  I know sometimes that we cannot pass under Ludham Bridge in Norfolk Lady if the river levels are too high, but we can still access everywhere else that the airdraft allows, including Rockland, Surlingham and the others that are prohibited due to the beam of some boats.

[Broads01]

58 minutes ago, SwanR said:

was looking at Annabelle from NYA for next year until we got to the very end of the booking process and found some hidden costs that pushed it up too far as a total cost. 

What were the hidden costs, Jean?

 

25 minutes ago, dom said:

t's also just putting more pressure on moorings. Two of these take up the best part of 90ft, but only house 8. 3 more traditional 30ft boats fit the same space and house up to 18. I can't remember if it's that exact boat and video, but can recall the 2 Men having issues finding a mooring on at least one occasion.

That's a fair point. Evita is 42 foot long so not out of the ordinary on that respect but it's beam puts more pressure on stern moorings. Imagine it moored at Ranworth, it would limit the width available for its next door neighbours.

[Broads01]

28 minutes ago, Mouldy said:

I couldn’t hire it even if I could afford it.  The Ant and The Chet are two of my favourite rivers.  I know sometimes that we cannot pass under Ludham Bridge in Norfolk Lady if the river levels are too high, but we can still access everywhere else that the airdraft allows, including Rockland, Surlingham and the others that are prohibited due to the beam of some boats.

I didn't realise Rockland and Surlingham would be an issue. I don't think it would be for me after all.

[RS2021]

57 minutes ago, Broads01 said:

I didn't realise Rockland and Surlingham would be an issue. I don't think it would be for me after all.

BA beam restrictions.

Part 1 (Beam Restrictions) 
(a) Vessels having a beam of 3.8 metres (12ft 6ins) or less. 
No restriction. 
(b) Vessels having a beam exceeding 3.8 metres (12ft 6ins). 
River Wensum: Upstream of Foundry Bridge 
River Yare: Upstream of Trowse Eye 
Bird’s Dyke and Surlingham Fleet Dyke 
Rockland Boat Dyke, Fleet Dyke and Short Dyke 
Langley Dyke 
Hardley Dyke 
River Chet: The entire waterway 
River Waveney: Geldeston Boat Dyke 
River Bure: Upstream of “The Rising Sun”, Coltishall 
Upton Dyke 
Hermitage Dyke, Acle 
River Ant: The entire waterway and its navigable branches 
including Barton Broad 
River Thurne: Upstream of Dungeon Corner 
Catfield Dyke and its branches 
Waxham Cut 
Meadow Dyke 
Candle Dyke 
Womack Dyke and Womack Water

(c) Vessels having a beam exceeding 4.27 metres (14ft). 
River Waveney: Upstream of Beccles Town Road Bridge 
River Bure: The entire waterway including Ranworth Dam and 
South Walsham Fleet Dyke 
River Thurne: The entire waterway downstream of Dungeon Corner 
(d) Vessels having a beam exceeding 5.5 metres (18ft). 
Haddiscoe New Cut: The entire waterway 
River Waveney:     The entire waterway downstream of Beccles Town 
Road Bridge 
(e) Vessels having a beam exceeding 6.10 metres (20ft). 
River Wensum: Downstream of Foundry Bridge 
River Yare:     Downstream of Trowse Eye

[SwanR]

1 hour ago, Broads01 said:

What were the hidden costs, Jean?

Sorry, it was Arabella not Annabelle, I was forgetting the name. The booking link takes you to Hoseasons. It was probably my mistake really as I had thought it was an all inclusive price. But when you get to the page where you would put your details in you should take note of the following.

A deposit paid on card of £500 will be collected on arrival and covers your Fuel Deposit and security Deposit. This will be refunded less the cost of any fuel used and providing the boat is returned in good order.

[Vaughan]

These boats are moulded from the 42ft "Classique" design, by Andy Wolstenholme, built by Crown Cruisers at Somerleyton for Crown Blue Line in France.  They were an exclusive design and Keith Gregory only ever allowed one boat to be built for a private owner.  Funnily enough, it is still moored on the Canal du Midi at Homps, about 5 minutes from where we live.

Crown built about 60 of these boats for France and the other 3 versions of the design (Crusader, Clipper and Grand Classique) must bring them to well over 100 boats.  They are surely, about the finest design of inland waterways hire boat ever built.

But they were never designed for the Broads and until only recently, have never been hired on the Broads.

Here is the same boat, cruising the waterways for which it was designed.

 

 

 

 

[dom]

1 hour ago, RS2021 said:

(b) Vessels having a beam exceeding 3.8 metres (12ft 6ins).

I wouldn't mind betting that one gets breached fairly regularly.

Especially Fleet Dyke, Womack Dyke and Womack Water.

I wonder what, if anything, BA rangers do in terms of checking that oversize vessels aren't in prohibited areas.

 

[Troyboy]

What a lovely looking boat.

No thanks. Too tall. Too wide. Too expensive. And I don't like those steps at the rear with no guard rail at the bottom.

[Broads01]

2 hours ago, RS2021 said:

BA beam restrictions.

Part 1 (Beam Restrictions) 
(a) Vessels having a beam of 3.8 metres (12ft 6ins) or less. 
No restriction. 
(b) Vessels having a beam exceeding 3.8 metres (12ft 6ins). 
River Wensum: Upstream of Foundry Bridge 
River Yare: Upstream of Trowse Eye 
Bird’s Dyke and Surlingham Fleet Dyke 
Rockland Boat Dyke, Fleet Dyke and Short Dyke 
Langley Dyke 
Hardley Dyke 
River Chet: The entire waterway 
River Waveney: Geldeston Boat Dyke 
River Bure: Upstream of “The Rising Sun”, Coltishall 
Upton Dyke 
Hermitage Dyke, Acle 
River Ant: The entire waterway and its navigable branches 
including Barton Broad 
River Thurne: Upstream of Dungeon Corner 
Catfield Dyke and its branches 
Waxham Cut 
Meadow Dyke 
Candle Dyke 
Womack Dyke and Womack Water

(c) Vessels having a beam exceeding 4.27 metres (14ft). 
River Waveney: Upstream of Beccles Town Road Bridge 
River Bure: The entire waterway including Ranworth Dam and 
South Walsham Fleet Dyke 
River Thurne: The entire waterway downstream of Dungeon Corner 
(d) Vessels having a beam exceeding 5.5 metres (18ft). 
Haddiscoe New Cut: The entire waterway 
River Waveney:     The entire waterway downstream of Beccles Town 
Road Bridge 
(e) Vessels having a beam exceeding 6.10 metres (20ft). 
River Wensum: Downstream of Foundry Bridge 
River Yare:     Downstream of Trowse Eye

Ouch, that's a pretty long list.

Having hired on the Great Glen in Scotland, it would be a lovely boat there. The canal sections and locks are wide enough for hotel boats.

[Vaughan]

12 hours ago, Broads01 said:

Having hired on the Great Glen in Scotland, it would be a lovely boat there. The canal sections and locks are wide enough for hotel boats.

It suits the Shannon in Ireland as well but it is just not a Broads boat and was never meant to be.

The interior layout looks enormously expensive and I wonder if it was originally commissioned as a private boat.  It is laid out with only two cabins and so that high hire charge is shared by only 4 people.  I rather doubt that is commercial but who knows?

The Classique built by Crown is laid out as an eight berth in 4 cabins but it was still a luxury boat, with loads of room!  That hire price, shared by eight people, would perhaps be more viable.

[Vaughan]

13 hours ago, Vaughan said:

 

Incidentally, this boat in the photo is a luxury 6 berth version with air conditioning and an Onan generator, built specially for hiring on the Hudson River in New York State.  It was shipped across "the Pond" and I took delivery in Albany, to commission the boat and prepare everything for its first week's hire, at the same time training up a local man to be the new base manager.

Unfortunately a decision was made to stop the operation after a couple of years, before it had a chance to get going, so I ended up with the two boats coming back to France on my base at St Gilles, in the Camargue.  And lovely boats they were, too. Lots of American customers!

[marshman]

What you all seem to forget is that most contributors here have a wealth of knowledge of the Broads, either because they are regular hirers or, more probably, own their own boats - indeed I cannot think of anywhere, over all my years, I have not been!! And as a result we know what they are missing!!

However, persons hiring such boats have no idea, or probably the time. What many here overlook is the fact that many boats are often only out for a few days - long gone are the days when a week was the minimum hire period! In my early days, they would not even hire you a boat for a few days- I remember going to yards, sometimes with plenty of boats lying unused and asking for a short hire, and I was never successful!  "No - we don't do that" was an oft repeated phrase!! Now its probably the norm!

So these hirers will probably be very happy with where they can go, just because they just do no have time to cover the backwaters many of us crave for! ( Well, not me anymore - past all that now!)

 

 

[oldgregg]

4 hours ago, Vaughan said:

The interior layout looks enormously expensive and I wonder if it was originally commissioned as a private boat.  It is laid out with only two cabins and so that high hire charge is shared by only 4 people.  I rather doubt that is commercial but who knows?

All of NYA's boats were originally built for private owners. They're mostly either Haines or Sheerline, the Alpha was Langford's own boat and has been refurbished.

They're adding a new build for next year, but she'll be to a similar standard. The price point is high but they aren't having trouble letting the boats as the service and quality of product is very high.

[oldgregg]

17 hours ago, dom said:

I wouldn't mind betting that one gets breached fairly regularly.

Especially Fleet Dyke, Womack Dyke and Womack Water.

I wonder what, if anything, BA rangers do in terms of checking that oversize vessels aren't in prohibited areas.

Yep.

I personally think that either the rules need to be updated, or hire boats should be limited to the 'go anywhere' dimensions as there's no way the BA can adequately monitor or control where hire boats go.

It may seem sensible to update the rules and 13ft 6 beam (or thereabouts) does realistically allow two side-by-side cabins aft, but if the limit were raised then people will simply push the boundaries of whatever the new limit is.

[SwanR]

2 hours ago, marshman said:

What many here overlook is the fact that many boats are often only out for a few days - long gone are the days when a week was the minimum hire period!

This is exactly right. We have probably had more short breaks than week long holidays as hirers. And we have never been through Wroxham, PH, Wayford or Beccles bridges. And that’s even with having hired forward steer cruisers many times. And we have had times when we couldn’t get through Ludham Bridge either. But every hire and every holiday has been amazing. 

[Gracie]

I totally agree with you Jean. In my earlier post I was referring to a week or two week break. If I am going to pay that sort of money I would expect to be able to see and use the whole system in that time

A long weekend or short break would be amazing on this boat, the parts you can reach on a short break just as magical x

 

[oldgregg]

1 hour ago, SwanR said:

This is exactly right. We have probably had more short breaks than week long holidays as hirers. And we have never been through Wroxham, PH, Wayford or Beccles bridges. And that’s even with having hired forward steer cruisers many times. And we have had times when we couldn’t get through Ludham Bridge either. But every hire and every holiday has been amazing. 

Some of the best bits of the Broads lie above those Bridges you mention... The Coltishall to Wroxham stretch is stunning when the sun is shining, as are the others really.

Why not take a dayboat down there one time?

I agree about short breaks - If you're working then taking a week's annual leave for boating is sometimes not really possible or you just don't want to use up that many days.

We often do a Friday-Monday or Saturday-Tuesday let and hand the boat back on the final evening of the hire then head home. On a bank holiday (or one of the rare double bank holidays) it's even better in terms of leave, though of course you do pay for it.

[dom]

1 hour ago, oldgregg said:

It may seem sensible to update the rules and 13ft 6 beam (or thereabouts) does realistically allow two side-by-side cabins aft, but if the limit were raised then people will simply push the boundaries of whatever the new limit is.

I do think limiting the size of the hire fleet in some way would be sensible. I just don't get the need for these massive boats, particularly when people spend half their time on shore exploring and don't cook much on board. 40ft+ boats have always been around, but they were taking 6 or 8 people, not 4.

One of my family member's boats has two doubles side-by-side to the aft in just 10ft 6in, including hanging storage between the two. It's 33ft long, will take 4 people in relative comfort and passes under Wroxham and Wayford bridges. Only has a single head, but a pretty luxurious seperate shower compartment. It's a 40 year old boat, but in my eyes far more suited to the broads than the current generation of boats and it'd be really interesting to see a modern take on the design.

 

[marshman]

People have always equated "space" with luxury!!!

Many many years ago, well about 25, we were out in Turkey with Sunsail and 2 people turned up for a 51 footer!!! The bloke said them, "don't forget your ball of string" so you can find one another - some people just have no idea how big a 51' sailing boat is!!! It did have in mast reefing but I would like to bet they didn't even put the sails up and just motored around - cannot imaging how much sail it could have carried! Frightening!!!!