Craft Beer

[SteveO]

Is it only me or has anyone else noticed that, as so-called "craft" beers proliferate, the number of cloudy pints and beers with "off" tastes has increased? Craft beers generally command a price premium. which I am happy to pay for a quality product, but some of the stuff being sold at the moment leaves me wondering. I brew my own beer and know that, with a bit of care, these faults can be avoided. I realise that "craft" brewers often try to push the boundaries, but I bridle at paying the thick end of  £4 a pint for someone's failed experiment.

Discuss...

[Wonderwall]

12 minutes ago, SteveO said:

Is it only me or has anyone else noticed that, as so-called "craft" beers proliferate, the number of cloudy pints and beers with "off" tastes has increased? Craft beers generally command a price premium. which I am happy to pay for a quality product, but some of the stuff being sold at the moment leaves me wondering. I brew my own beer and know that, with a bit of care, these faults can be avoided. I realise that "craft" brewers often try to push the boundaries, but I bridle at paying the thick end of  £4 a pint for someone's failed experiment.

Discuss...

I do like to try different beers, and of course some agree with me more than others.

But I can't recall a single beer making me unwell , regardless of its consistency.

Over indulgence , is a different tale !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, SteveO said:

Is it only me or has anyone else noticed that, as so-called "craft" beers proliferate, the number of cloudy pints and beers with "off" tastes has increased? Craft beers generally command a price premium. which I am happy to pay for a quality product, but some of the stuff being sold at the moment leaves me wondering. I brew my own beer and know that, with a bit of care, these faults can be avoided. I realise that "craft" brewers often try to push the boundaries, but I bridle at paying the thick end of  £4 a pint for someone's failed experiment.

Discuss...

How far can you push the concept of "it's an acquired taste" or "the flavor can only be appreciated by true connoisseurs of beer"  

[SteveO]

10 minutes ago, Wonderwall said:

I do like to try different beers, and of course some agree with me more than others.

But I can't recall a single beer making me unwell , regardless of its consistency.

Over indulgence , is a different tale !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Don't get me wrong. I'm not suggesting that these brews would do you harm in moderation, but I do wonder about beer which is cloudy or has "off" flavours being passed off as a premium product.  It was customer reaction to this sort of thing which gave  "real ale"  a bad reputation in the 1960's and ''70's , which led to the "keg revolution" that caused proper beer to all but disappear from pubs in some parts of the country. Beer brewed from wheat is normally cloudy, but there is no reason, apart from carelessness, why beer made from malted barley should be so.

[CambridgeCabby]

Too many of these new micro breweries seem to think if they can cram maximum hop flavour in to a beer then it’s a sign of quality , they don’t seem to understand that an ale need to have a balance of flavours .

my current favourite ale is Adnams Ghostship which to me has got it just right , I just wish that Greene King hadn’t ruined their Abbott Ale which when it was brewed at Biggleswade was IMHO  the best ale there was .

[Selsie]

6 hours ago, CambridgeCabby said:

Too many of these new micro breweries seem to think if they can cram maximum hop flavour in to a beer then it’s a sign of quality , they don’t seem to understand that an ale need to have a balance of flavours .

my current favourite ale is Adnams Ghostship which to me has got it just right , I just wish that Greene King hadn’t ruined their Abbott Ale which when it was brewed at Biggleswade was IMHO  the best ale there was .

Agreed, I find a pint or two of Ghost goes down well, I was born and raised in Biggleswade and can honestly say that some GK ales have got better with time and some have not.

I did work at the Brewery for a time, back in the 70's

[NorfolkNog]

Errr, could write a book on this.

The term craft beer usually, but not always, refers to the new generation of keg beers not to be confused with Watneys Red. Beers such as Meantime, Brewdog and Redwell for instance. The reason they are often expensive is that a) they are kegged and b) often very strong, typically 5% plus.

Beers such as Ghost Ship referred to are cask conditioned, often called real ale but the boundaries between to 2 styles are often blurred.

Many brewers now are producing so called un-fined beers. These are produced in the normal way but without finings being added to make the beer drop clear. Purists claim that the beer tastes better as the finings remove some flavour. Personally I'm not convinced. So if you get a 'cloudy' beer these days its not necessarily 'off' it could be un-fined. And of course wheat beers are always cloudy.

Brewers are experimenting more and you can get sour beers and all manner of exotic flavours.

Best think is to ask if your not sure, most pubs will offer you a sample. If you don't like to experiment stick to the tried and tested! But certainly the beer market has never been more diverse. When I were a lad most pubs sold mild and bitter and that was it!

And I won't comment on Greene King

[Paul]

There does seem to be a trend for wheat beers and lambic ales recently, which I have to admit I'm not keen on. I generally bow to the Nog's expertise in this area but I'm not fully buying the unfined argument. I've been brewing for thirty years and have never used a drop of finings in anything I've brewed, mainly because I have one or two vegetarian supping pals who would not appreciate regular finings and the vege friendly varieties have never had good press amongst those on the brewing forums I frequent. Despite that I never fail to get a beer clean as long as it's brewed, conditioned and kept properly. 

Some of you might remember that I used to take several kegs of ale to the NBN forum meets at Ranworth when my input was still appreciated on that other side. I always tried to get them in place on Friday night to give them chance to drop clear, sometimes it worked, sometimes not, a beer usually needs two or three days. Those that hadn't "brightened" in time for Saturday afternoon were usually just about perfect by Sunday breakfast though it bever effected the taste, or seemingly popularity of the brew!. I wonder sometimes if landlords nowadays are so used to having "racked bright" products delivered they don't know how to handle a live barrel. 

[NorfolkNog]

23 minutes ago, Paul said:

landlords nowadays are so used to having "racked bright" products delivered they don't know how to handle a live barrel. 

That is absolutely bang on the nail Paul. I think this is the main reason why 'real' ale is often served in such poor condition, many landlords sadly don't understand the concept of 'cask conditioned' and that's why beer is often served too 'green' so is often hazy and lacking in flavour.

I've never brewed my own beer (drunk plenty though)  so that's very interesting to hear about not using finings. There is a brewery up here in flat cap land called Brass Castle. Their beer is un-fined. However the landlord at my local really knows his stuff, gives the beer plenty of time and more often than not you would be pushed to tell whether it was fined or not. Good point.

[SteveO]

Spot on Paul. The only one time I have ever used findings was to save a brew that went slightly wrong. Probably due to wild yeast or something similar getting in.

[Hockham Admiral]

Here in mid-South-Norfolk we are exceedingly lucky in that our small village of some 650 inhabitants has a pub with SEVEN real ales. Yes, Howard, SEVEN!

The Hockham Eagle has gone from strength to strength over the last few years since our landlord bought it from Punch. His pricings seem unique in that ALL his seven real ales cost £3.50... Whether it's Adnams Southwold, Woodfordes Wherry, GK Abbot or the new Adnams Two Bays.

Here's a couple of pics from last night:

Everything else (ciders, lagers & Guiness) is £3.80. Oh, and Ghostship non-alcoholic (0.5%) at £3.00!

 

 

 

 

 

[NorfolkNog]

good to hear from you again John 

Yes good choice indeed you're very lucky, the Eagle I guess, I'm less keen on the GK stuff I must admit but tried the 2 bays in Norwich a couple of weeks ago and was very impressed! 

[annv]

Hi Cambridge Cabby The Abbot when brewed at Biggleswade would give you a splitting headache in the morning, now its brewed at Bury it doesn't, i asked the brewer apparently they use a different temperature when brewing that does not increase a acide, can't remember the name but this is what caused the headache, i still like Abbot, then Speckled hen then Ghost ship then Trawler boys.John

[SteveO]

I tried a bottle of Ghost Ship non-alcoholic beer yesterday and enjoyed it very much.  As I don't really like sweet fizzy soft drinks and quickly get bored of water, this stuff is a perfect substitute for alcohol on my "nights off" 

[CambridgeCabby]

8 hours ago, annv said:

Hi Cambridge Cabby The Abbot when brewed at Biggleswade would give you a splitting headache in the morning, now its brewed at Bury it doesn't, i asked the brewer apparently they use a different temperature when brewing that does not increase a acide, can't remember the name but this is what caused the headache, i still like Abbot, then Speckled hen then Ghost ship then Trawler boys.John

Fortunately I’m yet to suffer a morning after headache , even though I have woken up still under the influence .

 

these new “craft beers” I feel rely  on the emperors new clothes syndrome, where if people keep saying it’s good and worth the inflated prices  long enough you will end up believing them.

 

[Paul]

8 hours ago, annv said:

pparently they use a different temperature when brewing that does not increase a acide

Iso alpha-acids are produced by glands in the hop flower and are the main bittering component of the hop. Hops from good quality sources should be tested and labelled with the alpha acid content as it will change from year to year. Only by knowing ths iaa content can you adjust the quantity of hops to achieve the correct bitterness levels. The temperature to which you heat the wort during the bittering process effects the isomerisation level of the alpha acids which begins at +79c and continues to boiling point, so a lower temperature "boil" means lower isomerisation and less ias's in the finished brew.

The main cause of the hangover is dehydration caused by iaa's in the brew so it will give you a better morning after, but it does change the taste and mouthfeel of the beer. Although I still find Abbot quite drinkable after a couple of pints it starts to get qute sickly, and leaves a syrupy feel  in the mouth, because of the lower temperature boil. 

[annv]

Thanks for that Paul, i knew it was a acid i must admit i don't drink no where near  as much these days, there seems to be far less  big boys that make you do it these days about, the fur and feather was one when they closed at 2 30 all down hill back to the boat with tung pie when i arrived. Happy days. John

[Paul]

Boddington's is another ale which has suffered badly from meddling with the brewing technique. The original recipe brewed at Strangeway's was a fine beer. Sadly following the takeover by Whitbred and subsequently In Bev, the closure of strangeways, the change of recipe and the addition of Nitro kegging it was completely destroyed. 

[webntweb]

15 minutes ago, Paul said:

Boddington's is another ale which has suffered badly from meddling with the brewing technique. 

Living in Manchester I drank Boddington's bitter for many years and I agree that when they took brewing away from Strangeways it was never the same again.

I would imagine water (hard or soft or what the water people add to it) plays a big part in how a beer tastes - Manchester's water comes from the lake district.

The local pub where I worked many years ago was a Tetley's house who were supplied from the old Walker's brewery in Warrington (water from Lake Vyrnwy in Wales). If for any reason (strike etc) they couldn't get supplies from Warrington it then came from Tetley's Yorkshire brewery which was a much better pint.

Since the Yorkshire Tetley brewery closed I can't drink the stuff.

Roy

[Paul]

40 minutes ago, webntweb said:

I would imagine water (hard or soft or what the water people add to it) plays a big part in how a beer tastes

Absolutely right, which is why Burton grew into a big brewing town due to the artesian wells with ideal water supply for brewing. Home brewers will usually get an alaysis of their water supply from the local water company then take steps to remove the chlorine and flouride which has been added then add salts if necessary to try and mimic this "perfect water". It's not essential. You can brew quite respectable beer without but for the absolute perfectionist the water they start with is critical.

[webntweb]

Water hardness is measured in the UK in Clarke degrees which scale goes from 0 (very soft) to approx 30 (very hard).

Manchester is presently 1.68 and Brundall (where we moor) is 26.4.

 

[grendel]

where I live in Canterbury it is rated at 281 mg/l CaCO₃ which is classified as hard according to Southern water

[annv]

I have been told that Green King use a Burtonized water treatment that can mimic any supply of water to what they want, the idea is to brew at Bury and mimic any beer that was brewed elsewhere Speckled Hen that originally came from Henley Which is where i first tried it when i visited my daughter, the trouble is without having a pint of each its impossible to say if there is not any difference, Perhaps Paul can enlighten us.John

[Paul]

The main water qualities of concern to brewers are hardness, acidity and mineral content. Any or all of these can be modified to try and make the water resemble something else, but whether it can be done in such a way that produces a similar result in the finished beer is open to debate. Can you make water with low carbonate levels resemble "Burton" water by chucking a few sacks of CaCO3 into a vat as opposed to that carbonate havung been dissolved over millions of years?

As you say, without samples of both to try alongside each other it is difficult to be certain but I don't think so.

Sadly, the once great 'Hen is another beer butchered by conglomerate brewing companies following takeover. Changes in the name of "improvement" which in the brewing industry usually means "economy" or "rationalisation".

 

[annv]

Thanks for that Paul I certainly youst to look forward to going to daughters and drinking speckled hen but that was some time ago now, i now drink more moderately and beer doesn't taste as i remember it, Whitbread Directors was another beer use to like when i visited a friend's pub. All sadly gone. memorise is all that's left. John