Broads Authority Study Into Status Of Broadland Staithes

[Paul]

The Broads Authority commissioned UEA to undertake a study into the provision and status of Broadland's staithes least year, it was due to be published last summer but I don't recall having seen anything. Did I miss it?

[Vaughan]

Very good point!

[JanetAnne]

Interesting they asked for "status " 

 

[JennyMorgan]

My understanding is that it has been published but has failed to be the hoped for in depth research document that was hoped for, something of a damp squib apparently. Regretfully I don't personally know how to access it.

[JennyMorgan]

http://www.songofthepaddle.co.uk/forum/showthread.php/53287-Public-Staithes-on-The-Norfolk-amp-Suffolk-Broads-(implications-elsewhere-)

[Paladin]

From the minutes of the NavCom meeting on 19 April 2018 (Admin Officer's report)  - "Meeting taking place with Prof Williamson on 25 April to agree the amendments required to the report prior to preparing a final version for publication."

[JohnK]

http://www.songofthepaddle.co.uk/forum/showthread.php/53287-Public-Staithes-on-The-Norfolk-amp-Suffolk-Broads-(implications-elsewhere-)

I wish I was in the gang that’s allowed to mention other forums

[JennyMorgan]

12 minutes ago, JohnK said:

 

I wish I was in the gang that’s allowed to mention other forums

 

Pedant! John, I haven't provided a link to another Broads forum. I rather hoped that the information contained within went some way to answering the original question.

[JohnK]

Pedant:default_wink:! John, I haven't provided a link to another Broads forum. I rather hoped that the information contained within went some way to answering the original question.

I provided no link at all and my post got removed so you’re winning whatever way you spin it

[JennyMorgan]

1 minute ago, JohnK said:

 

I provided no link at all and my post got removed so you’re winning whatever way you spin it

 

I haven't commented in order to win.

Sorry to read that you have had a post removed, however, welcome to the club! 

[Vaughan]

12 hours ago, JennyMorgan said:

http://www.songofthepaddle.co.uk/forum/showthread.php/53287-Public-Staithes-on-The-Norfolk-amp-Suffolk-Broads-(implications-elsewhere-)

Thank you Peter, very interesting.

I agree with all of that, with one exception, where he says that a staithe can fall into disuse if the waterway leading to it silts up. I have always understood the reverse : that if legal right to a staithe is maintained and required, then the waterway to it, must be maintained. Indeed, the definition of a "navigation" on the Broads is a waterway, leading to a staithe. If there is no staithe then the waterway itself risks being seen as private. Timbo explains this much better than me!

I was also pleased to see, in view of discussions on another thread, that the forum obviously has a direct dialogue with its local waterways authority. Why can't we do that?

[grendel]

 

15 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

I was also pleased to see, in view of discussions on another thread, that the forum obviously has a direct dialogue with its local waterways authority. Why can't we do that?

Have we ever extended an invitation to them?

[Meantime]

12 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

Thank you Peter, very interesting.

I agree with all of that, with one exception, where he says that a staithe can fall into disuse if the waterway leading to it silts up. I have always understood the reverse : that if legal right to a staithe is maintained and required, then the waterway to it, must be maintained. Indeed, the definition of a "navigation" on the Broads is a waterway, leading to a staithe. If there is no staithe then the waterway itself risks being seen as private. Timbo explains this much better than me!

I was also pleased to see, in view of discussions on another thread, that the forum obviously has a direct dialogue with its local waterways authority. Why can't we do that?

An interesting point raised by Vaughan, that I suspect has implications for Acle Dyke! I'm sure that Hamilton's refers to a public staithe at the top end of the dyke, and I'm sure there used to be a little bit of public mooring there. However the last time I went down there, there were just permanently moored boats on the section I'm sure used to be public mooring. Certainly the signs at the end of the dyke suggest there is no mooring. Whys this of any relevance? Well reports suggest that Acle dyke needs dredging, but by whom? Some say it is part of the navigation and therefore down to the BA, but without a staithe, or one that appears to have been commandeered for the purposes of private moorings, then surely it is just a private dyke and down to the owner of the moorings to dredge just like any other private marina?

It is a fair walk to Acle centre and the shops from the bridge. A public staithe at the end of Acle dyke would have made sense and I'm sure would still be useful today for those wishing to visit Acle centre. Not necessarily a popular choice for the people who rent mooring along the dyke to have too many boats up and down there visiting, but at the same time if you remove the reason for public access, then surely you remove the need for public money to be spent on dredging?

[Meantime]

Would this be the report that people have referred to?

http://geldestonparishcouncil.norfolkparishes.gov.uk/files/2016/11/staithes-report-final-final-draft.pdf

[Vaughan]

8 minutes ago, EastCoastIPA said:

that I suspect has implications for Acle Dyke!

I assume you mean the Hermitage dyke, where Easticks boatyard was? As a hire yard, they had lots of overnight moorings available down the dyke but these have now become private. Whether there was a public or parish staithe at  the end, I can't remember but as you say, it sounds logical.

[JennyMorgan]

14 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

I was also pleased to see, in view of discussions on another thread, that the forum obviously has a direct dialogue with its local waterways authority. Why can't we do that?

In principle, Vaughan, I support your question, but with caution. When JP made his report at a Broads Authority meeting, and it was well witnessed by several NBN & NBF members, he had the brass neck to claim that he had dialogue with the public and then proceeded to blatantly misquote in order to garner support from the Authority members. The following 'Ask JP' was then less than civil towards him and I don't blame the forum members one iota, it was not they who set the tone of dialogue. I believe that JP is still a member of the NBF but whether he will put his head above the parapet again, well,  I have my doubts. Very unfortunate, an unexpected turn of events. However, I see no reason why he can't be asked to join NBN, I for one would welcome him. Whilst I know that I can knock on his door at anytime, and would be welcome, I would also appreciate his presence amongst us all. He's not an ogre, indeed he's a very able operator, just unfortunate that he's paddling up the wrong dyke, in my opinion of course!!

[Meantime]

2 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

I assume you mean the Hermitage dyke, where Easticks boatyard was? As a hire yard, they had lots of overnight moorings available down the dyke but these have now become private. Whether there was a public or parish staithe at  the end, I can't remember but as you say, it sounds logical.

Looking at P38 of the report I linked to above, Professor Tom Williamson suggest it was possibly a public staithe.

[JennyMorgan]

8 minutes ago, EastCoastIPA said:

Would this be the report that people have referred to?

http://geldestonparishcouncil.norfolkparishes.gov.uk/files/2016/11/staithes-report-final-final-draft.pdf

Thank you, hugely interesting, blowed if I could find it before!

[johnb]

Just a question: if people who moor in Adjacent waters have to pay a toll, do they get any dredging etc service for this? It is my understanding that although having to pay a toll some of these vessels never leave their mooring. Perhaps I am wrong. 

[Meantime]

2 minutes ago, johnb said:

Just a question: if people who moor in Adjacent waters have to pay a toll, do they get any dredging etc service for this? It is my understanding that although having to pay a toll some of these vessels never leave their mooring. Perhaps I am wrong. 

I'm pretty sure the answer is no. Marinas off the main river have to pay for their own dredging, but are still classed as adjacent waters. The ownership of adjacent waters hasn't changed, just the need to have a toll and BSS and insurance.

[JennyMorgan]

John, as I understand it the Authority has no duty towards maintaining adjacent waters. Indeed if they had then where would that end?

[Meantime]

7 minutes ago, JennyMorgan said:

Thank you, hugely interesting, blowed if I could find it before!

Although it says final final draft, it is in a folder entitled 2016! Be interesting to see the published report that appears after the BA's discussion on the 25th April with Professor Tom Williamson. Have a saved copy just for reference.

[Islander]

Interesting read that no known owner for Thorpe river green yet the local council intend letting moorings there. I will sit and read the whole report when I have time.

I wonder what amendments are to be made and by whom.

 

Colin

[ChrisB]

Please see the following re: Acle Dyke circa 1956. For comparison I also include Upton Dyke which is clearly marked Staithe. i

[ChrisB]

If you wish to check old OS without charge then The National Library of Scotland is excellent. Once youget the hang of navigating your way round. It is one of my most used book marks.  EDIT TO SAY THIS IS BETTER SCREEN PRINT