SteveO Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 Every December I drain down our domestic water system, disconnect the pump and calorifier and bring the pump home for safe, frost free storage. This is reversed in February or March before recommissioning the boat. The calorifier is a straightforward job but the pump removal requires my undoing jubilee clips and disconnecting the feed from the water tank and the pressure receiver. The pump sits at the same level as the bottom of the tank and is only accessible by removing the base of a berth in the saloon and is right at the limit of my reach when I lean down into the space. I essentially have to do the job one-handed, which makes things very difficult, especially as I wear varifocal specs. I have put off doing anything about this, but things came to a head the other day when I nearly fell headfirst into the bilge. My question is, would it be possible to raise the level of the pump, either by constructing a platform closer to the top of the space, or by mounting it vertically on the outer side of the engine bay? This would mean that the pump would have to "lift" the water approximately 2ft worst case. I have no idea as to the pump's lifting/self-priming capacity, so don't know if this would be a problem. I attach a (poor) photo of the layout, The water tank is the white object on the left hand side of the photo next to the tube heater and the engine compartment is on the opposite side. Any advice would be much appreciated Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadAmbition Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 came to a head the other day when I nearly fell headfirst into the bilge. Sorry, shouldn't laugh - (But I did ) Why not just open all the domestic taps and / or drain down, then fit a 240v tube heater 80w-ish via a thermostat adjacent to the pump? - Then leave it in situ. We have never removed any of 'B.A's pumps, we rely on a couple of 240v tube heaters. Being in a wetshed helps tremendously of course Griff 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveO Posted February 19, 2020 Author Share Posted February 19, 2020 Thanks Griff. If I was in a wet-shed I would do the same as you, This year, I needn't have done anything at all because the weather has been so mild, but whe have had other years where the water in the basin has frozen. I am fairly nervous about this as on our previous boat, I had a pump head get blown apart by frost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadAmbition Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 Understood. Well then as I see it you have two options, raise it up and insulate it to death in the winter and / or take it home. Raising it shouldn't cause any problems as the head of water in the fw tank will always be higher than your pump by the look of it and besides these fw pumps will lift a fair way. The newly installed extract shower pump I put on 'B.A' last week will lift ten feet! Griff 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExSurveyor Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 Can i see quick release connectors each end of the pump ? I always drain the water via a drain off at the lowest point, leave all the taps and ashower open and leave a tube heater on until the end of March. February may be a bit early to leave filled, remember the Beast from the East. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quo vadis Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 remember the Beast from the East. You mean Maureen from Hull 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hylander Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 Yes I recall the Beast From the East, our Richardson's boating holiday was cancelled as the rivers were just frozen solid. I do recall the staff saying that some customers were really quite abusive when they telephoned them and could not understand the reason for cancelling their holidays. Albeit we all got our money refunded and even better a huge discount on our next holiday to make up for something that really was quite out of the control of Richardson's themselves but they are such a good company. Never mind global warming , Mother Nature is a devil and putting us all in our place from time to time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annv Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 Why do you need to do any of above?? i drain down by connecting my shower drain pump via a y valve this sucks any water that is left in system after draining water i lift a hatch turn valve to open turn all the taps on switch shower pump on sit and wait for sucking sound from taps turn off, reset y valve job done i have never had any problems and i don't bother with any heating, you can't get frost damage if there is no water trapped under pressure, if you haven't got one fit drain valve at lowest accessible point with a ball 90deg handle then a pump with hose over/through side switch on drink a cup of coffee/read a book until all water is sucked out, reset valve taps go home until next year. John 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBerkshireBoy Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 90 degree turn lever valves are quicker, easier and more reliable than red handled gate valves. Very handy in domestic airing cupboards and in kitchen cabinets, infact anywhere where access is limited. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grendel Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 only until the valve seal comes loose and jams the valve open, mind you the gate valve stuck in position too, but at least that stuck closed 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveRolaves Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 I have never removed the water pump for the winter period. Just drain down the system and disconnect the quick connection pipes from the pump if it has these fittings and drain the water out of the pump. Leave the connections off the pump. If there is no water left in the pump then its not going to freeze up. As a belt and braces move cover the pump up with a blanket or some other material. Leave the taps, showers and drains open. Dave R... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBerkshireBoy Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 2 minutes ago, grendel said: only until the valve seal comes loose and jams the valve open, mind you the gate valve stuck in position too, but at least that stuck closed Have never experianced that unlike gate valves which seize, snap stems or don`t fully close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regulo Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 I do bring my pump home, just open all taps, run pump until there's no more water from any of them, and flip the quick release connectors on the pump and take it out. I use Wago connectors for the pump supply, a 10 second job to disconnect/reconnect. I have a 90 degree valve at the lowest point, too. Leave it open, and also disconnect the shower flexibles, they're prone to trap water that's not easily drained. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ranworthbreeze Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 20 minutes ago, OldBerkshireBoy said: Have never experianced that unlike gate valves which seize, snap stems or don`t fully close. My experience of gate valves is very similar to yours at least in domestic environments on the boat we use lever valves especially for the raw water intake. Regards Alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
floydraser Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 Thankfully, we don't seem to get many severe frosts these days but the tube heater should prevent any damage if we do. I replaced mine for new ones with integral thermostats. At the lowest setting they come on at around 3 degrees. An alternative would be to wire the heater through an independant frost stat which would be more accurate at lower temperatures so it could be set at say, zero degrees to save electricity. If you have mains power and wifi (and who hasn't?) you could control the heaters from home whenever there is a severe forecast. I drain the water tanks into the bilge and let the pump there hoof it over the side. I was falsly credited by a boaty neighbour of doing it to flush the bilge and keep it fresh. That was never the case but I've let him think I'm a genius. Some numpty has fitted a big gate valve to the toilet inlet of the Denham Owl which predictably, has seized solid in the open position. I therefore have a tube heater near it just in case. The plan is to replace it when she comes out of the water for work this year. Hope this helps a bit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBerkshireBoy Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 To free up the big gate valve you can try backing off the top nut then spray pentration oil on the stem and leave for an hour. Then try gently turning the handle one then the other several times to free it up. Sometimes hitting the top with a lightweight hammer can shock it free. Be gentle though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
floydraser Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 1 hour ago, OldBerkshireBoy said: To free up the big gate valve you can try backing off the top nut then spray pentration oil on the stem and leave for an hour. Then try gently turning the handle one then the other several times to free it up. Sometimes hitting the top with a lightweight hammer can shock it free. Be gentle though. Ouch! Thanks for that Kev but it's 'glassed into the hull; get it wrong and I sink! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveO Posted February 20, 2020 Author Share Posted February 20, 2020 Thanks for all the information, you have given me some real food for thought. I am thinking that I will raise the pump on a small platform and replace the tails with some longer, newer and more supple lengths of flexible hose. This would allow me to use the pump's quick connectors. At the moment, the connection hose from tank to pump is so short that I have to disconnect it from the tank to get enough leeway slide the fitting out of the pump. The gate valve is working well at the moment. I test its operation at the beginning and end of each season and it has given no problems. Truth to tell, I am loth to disturb it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBerkshireBoy Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 14 minutes ago, floydraser said: Ouch! Thanks for that Kev but it's 'glassed into the hull; get it wrong and I sink! In domestic situation I have left the valve in place and swopped the internals over. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
floydraser Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 20 minutes ago, OldBerkshireBoy said: In domestic situation I have left the valve in place and swopped the internals over. Thanks again but It needs to come out and have it's bum painted this year and I have nice big ball valve ready to go in while there's no chance of disaster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
floydraser Posted February 20, 2020 Share Posted February 20, 2020 28 minutes ago, SteveO said: Thanks for all the information, you have given me some real food for thought. I am thinking that I will raise the pump on a small platform and replace the tails with some longer, newer and more supple lengths of flexible hose. This would allow me to use the pump's quick connectors. At the moment, the connection hose from tank to pump is so short that I have to disconnect it from the tank to get enough leeway slide the fitting out of the pump. The gate valve is working well at the moment. I test its operation at the beginning and end of each season and it has given no problems. Truth to tell, I am loth to disturb it. Sounds like a good plan, best of luck. The gate valve should be fine with regular use and while it ain't broke... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldBerkshireBoy Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 Always fully open a gate valve then close it half to three quarters of a turn, then should it stick you can normally release it by turning the handle both ways a few times. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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