Hoseasons

[marshman]

I may have have missed this on here but I see Hoseasons , along with some other cottage holiday companies, have been reported by Which to the Regulator at the Competitions and Markets Authority for not allowing refunds  - it is based on the fact that that they believe contracts contain unfair terms contrary to the Consumer Rights Act.

Whilst I appreciate that elsewhere I promised not to comment further on refunds, I was interested to see that some even quite large travel companies ARE processing refunds promptly, simply because monies received had been placed in ring fenced accounts and in one case even a trust, to ensure that this could be done in the events that have transpired.

 

 

[MotorBoater]

I too have commented elsewhere on this. I don't wish to repeat everything here but I wouldn't be surprised if Which were not looking for easy targets as warnings to others.

If so they should be careful of opening the flood gates. I can see people sitting indoors thinking "If company A has been reported then what about company B,C,D,E etc".

[marshman]

I don't think banks generally are considered "soft" targets - Which continues to be a thorn in the flesh of these institutions and have been for years!!! I am not sure who can and cannot report in this manner - I doubt individuals can.

I doubt  it reflects ease or otherwise but as a "guardian of consumer" rights" I am pleased they do look after consumer interests. Don't rely on your MP to!!!!

[JennyMorgan]

 Hoseasons has very clearly damaged itself, and possibly the Broads holiday industry. It will be interesting to see if their 'major' accounts stay with them. Very unfortunate for all concerned. Hats off to Which.

[Chelsea14Ian]

Seems the rules regarding cancelled holidays are  clear. To offer alternative dates in the future if acceptable to those affected by cancellations,or refunds.We are due to go to Cornwall in a months time.As yet they've not cancelled.I'm sure it will be cancelled.As for us,we dont mind if we can go next year,at no extra cost.Seems Cornwall is unlucky for me.We booked five years ago,we had to cancel, because  I broke a bone in my foot.

[marshman]

Ian - you will be pleased to learn that from the experiences of the companies who have already paid back cash to those who lost holidays and who asked for refunds, the remaining 80% have just rebooked for 2021. Interestingly one or two of the companies have offered those rescheduling next year, a loyalty discount to do so - I would call that exemplary customer service and perhaps one to be followed by others.

Slim chance I know and incidentally agree  (again!!! ) with PW on this. No wonder Len whilst at Ferry so hacked off with them, he just walked out of the meeting and decided to go it alone. OK he could afford to do that I guess but taking that attitude will do  harm to a once proud name and those attaching themselves to it, whilst this all  untangles itself and gets sorted.

[JennyMorgan]

Hoseasons are hacking off not only their customers but also the customers of those that they represent. So what happens if Hoseasons ceases trading? In practical terms their physical, realizable assets are surely limited.  Come on Hoseasons, sort yourselves out! The implications of them not doing so are worrying.

[Cockatoo]

Does anyone know, if you had booked a holiday by credit card, thereby being covered by S75, and then accepted a voucher for next year would you still be covered by S75 if the firm went bust?

[JennyMorgan]

No, I haven't a clue, but I will guess that your first option is to effectively cash in your voucher. Personally I'd do that rather than wait for a crash. In the event of which I suspect the bank would have no option but to honour their S75 agreement.

[Chelsea14Ian]

I dont know the answer, perhaps a phone call to your bank,and or contact Which.

[Meantime]

44 minutes ago, Cockatoo said:

Does anyone know, if you had booked a holiday by credit card, thereby being covered by S75, and then accepted a voucher for next year would you still be covered by S75 if the firm went bust?

It's a very grey area and there is no clear cut answer. In theory you should be covered but lots of credit card companies drag their heels on paying out for them. Your best bet would be to use the voucher to book another holiday as the holiday would then be covered by ATOL if the holiday company goes bust, the voucher is probably not covered by ATOL,

[Meantime]

An overlooked scheme that can be of use is the chargeback scheme. Both Visa and Mastercard run them, not sure about Amex. If you buy goods using either and they fail to deliver the good or provide the service then you can make a claim for a full chargeback normally within 120 days of payment. Since the balancing payment is normally required a number of weeks before the holiday, you might still have time to make a claim that way. Having a voucher shouldn't make any difference for chargeback and it relies on the credit card company taking the money back from the holiday company, rather than the holiday company issuing a cash refund.

[DAVIDH]

5 minutes ago, EastCoastIPA said:

Your best bet would be to use the voucher to book another holiday as the holiday would then be covered by ATOL if the holiday company goes bust,

Assuming it's a flight, plus one other element booking, and you were issued with an ATOL certificate with the confirmation. Accommodation only or flight only are not covered by ATOL.

[marshman]

I believe that if within 12 mths of the date of the holiday, you can still reject the voucher and ask for a cash refund - certainly any S75 claim should be the last resort. Credit card companies will want to see you have exhausted other options first - you should first write to the holiday company to say you have decided you do not want to accept the credit note offered and want a cash refund. Y

ECIPA is correct in that the credit notes being offered are not covered by ATOL  - yet. The Govt has studiously ignored these issues as yet, but may well offer some way out - but don't hold your breath!

[DAVIDH]

Hoseasons are by no means alone, in refusing or making it difficult to get refunds:
https://www.which.co.uk/news/2020/04/uks-biggest-airlines-and-holiday-providers-breaking-the-law-over-cancellation-refunds/

[marshman]

Indeed not - but a formal complaint to the CMA does mean the latter now have to progress it !!!!!

[Meantime]

14 minutes ago, marshman said:

Indeed not - but a formal complaint to the CMA does mean the latter now have to progress it !!!!!

I wouldn't bank on that. In fact I think I am correct in stating that they do not take up individual complaints.

[Cockatoo]

32 minutes ago, EastCoastIPA said:

I wouldn't bank on that. In fact I think I am correct in stating that they do not take up individual complaints.

They (the CMA) were soliciting individual complaints about shopkeepers price gouging when we were at the panic buying stage.

 

[Meantime]

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/how-the-cma-handles-information-and-complaints-about-businesses/how-the-cma-handles-information-and-complaints-about-businesses

The first paragraph states that they do not respond to individual complaints. I think they want to hear from people with complaints and then will investigate those companies with a large number of complaints and take action if required, but not on the behalf of an individual. A large fine for a company that has broken consumer laws is not very satisfying to an individual looking for their money back. Raise a complaint with the CMA for the sake of the public and consumers, but if trying to get your own money back there are other more prudent methods such as S75, chargeback, small claims etc.

[Dan]

I too have watched Hoseasons handling with interest.... I cannot believe that after a month they have not adjusted the sails and they still just post (promptly) the same reply to everyone on Twitter asking for a refund & struggling to get through - please DM us your details so we can take a look,  and so there is a constant roundabout turning of people posting that they have and haven't heard after XX days, and criticism such as why aren't they offering refunds etc follows.

Haven have handled it well I think, stating very clearly (and simply, unlike Hoseasons long winded multiple condition and complex response including suggestions to call to transfer dates but then the recorded message saying you can only speak to someone if departing within 7 days etc) that a directly booked holiday placed for 2020 or 2021 will be refunded if the virus gets in the way.  Haven took 30 days to process our refund but you can live with that as passable I think... people will have empathy to the situation if you are clear and fair about it

Like Marshman I think those companies that have offered a refund or transfer to another date with a slight reduction/offer (Park Holidays for one I think) chose a good route to help cashflow/not lose all the money out of the business that it can probably not afford (and no doubt a big part of why Hoseasons are not doing what is right, they probably just cannot logistically afford to refund people) whilst still being fair to the customers that it depends on.

I think in times of crisis you find out how good people are and whether they are for you or for themselves....

I wonder what James Hoseason would have done ;)

Dan

 

[marshman]

I don't think that the Which complaint will be ignored as ..an individual complaint...! Its by no means the first complaint they have lodged on other issues in the past, and as a charity have many many members - this has been brewing for some weeks and technically I guess the issue will have been raised on behalf of the members who have been complaining in droves to Which.

Potters have also been pro active in returning funds I believe, so its not impossible to actually refund - unless you have spent it elsewhere!!!!! 

 

 

[JennyMorgan]

3 hours ago, marshman said:

Potters have also been pro active in returning funds I believe, so its not impossible to actually refund - unless you have spent it elsewhere!!!!! 

Knowing the family personally I would have been surprised if they acted any  differently.  They are cute bunnies,  they are active throughout the year whereas many of Hoseason's customers are seasonal. Seasonal businesses rely on their winter/spring deposits to pay their bills at the start of the season, or they did in my time! I'm afraid that Marshman's last comment may have more than a little substance. 

[jeffbroadslover]

We had a short break booked with Haven which because of this virus had to be cancelled.

We were contacted by Haven and were given options of

1) a full refund of all the money we had paid ( we had paid in full)

2) Rearrange our holiday for a later date this year

3) Rearranged our holiday for a date of our choice at a later time

For choices 2 and 3 they would hold our cash as payment towards the subsequent holiday

We were then informed that if we chose option 2 or 3 we would then receive a  £50 voucher to be spent on site during our holiday

Who could ask for anything fairer than that?

New holiday dates now arranged

Jeff 

 

[grendel]

I think Marthams topped that by moving the date of my holiday into the busy period at no extra charge, despite the fact i booked last october and paid in full at last years prices.

[Paul]

If you wish to complain then the policy now is to contact Citizens Advice who if after reviewing your circumstances and believe you have a valid case and done all you can already can pass it on to authorities such as the CMA on your behalf, but you cannot approach the CMA directly. It's a kind of triage service to stop the CMA being inundated with unreasonable claims though the CAB are not very happy being used in such a manner.

As Hoseasons are members of ABTA then you should complain to them first, they are the industry watchdog and CAB will insist on that being done before processing your complaint any further. Their solicitors will review your case and whilst they cannot impose a settlement they can advise you impartially and warn their member company if they feel you have a valid case against them. In these circumstances the operator will almost always comply with ABTA's ruling.

The CMA might from time to time appeal for anyone with a complaint against a certain company to contact them but this will only happen after they have received what they feel are valid complaints from CAB and wish to gather additional evidence. 

Hoseasons, you can be certain will be acting within the terms of their booking conditions, which for most travel companies have a force majeure exclusion limiting their liability if the holiday cannot be taken for reasons outside their own control. It will specify what they will do but will normally exclude a full refund. Of the cases Which have highlighted on each occasion Hoseasons have offered to rebook the same holiday at the same price in 2021, so claims of people being forced to pay loads of extra money or taking holidays planned for summer during the winter are typical press over reactions. 

The test here will be firstly if the force majeure limitation in their booking conditions is legal, but there have been many tests of this in the past which have ruled that it is, and if indeed it is then does lock down qualify as "force majeure."