Bikertov Posted June 28, 2022 Share Posted June 28, 2022 2 hours ago, EdwardCharlesMitchell said: Mmmm. Horses for courses, I guess. Funnily enough, back in the day, that's what they used on canals to tow the barges/narrow boats - Horses - before the steam or internal combustion engine was invented. That's the reason canals have tow paths, as the horses towed the barges 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bikertov Posted June 28, 2022 Share Posted June 28, 2022 3 hours ago, RumPunch said: I have wondered if there is a way of coming up with some kind of water powered dynamo to top the batteries as you move. Won't provide huge amounts I know, but add panels and it'd help lessen the charge surely 2 hours ago, Smoggy said: But the energy has to come from somewhere, in this case more required to push the boat along to spin the dynamo. I've often thought about the usefulness of a mini water turbine for a broads/river boat. Clearly not for when you are underway: as Smoggy said the energy has to come from somewhere, so the engine is having to propel the boat to generate the electricity - that wouldn't work. But what about when you are moored - could the natural and tidal flow of the river run a small turbine to trickle charge stuff ? Obviously that wouldn't work on a Broad where there is no flow, and would be less effective on the upper reaches of rivers, but nearer to the sea where there is more of a tidal flow ? If you think about it, they have been suggesting this sort of thing for years on estuaries such as the Severn, to generate massive amounts of electricity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingFortress Posted June 28, 2022 Share Posted June 28, 2022 4 hours ago, CambridgeCabby said: I’d suggest a 30+ hp Diesel engine with an alternator 🤣🤣 Which is the option the OP and myself have just taken. BTW Edward. I have just had a new diesel fitted by Peachments and have nothing but praise for the service we have received. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingFortress Posted June 28, 2022 Share Posted June 28, 2022 1 hour ago, Bikertov said: I've often thought about the usefulness of a mini water turbine for a broads/river boat. Clearly not for when you are underway: as Smoggy said the energy has to come from somewhere, so the engine is having to propel the boat to generate the electricity - that wouldn't work. But what about when you are moored - could the natural and tidal flow of the river run a small turbine to trickle charge stuff ? Obviously that wouldn't work on a Broad where there is no flow, and would be less effective on the upper reaches of rivers, but nearer to the sea where there is more of a tidal flow ? If you think about it, they have been suggesting this sort of thing for years on estuaries such as the Severn, to generate massive amounts of electricity. There are a multitude of blooming stupid (my opinion only but anyone who wishes to debate I can provide facts) windmills in the southern sector of the North sea. All stopped when there is no wind and also stopped (feathered) when there is too much wind, each sporting a diesel generator to re align them when the wind starts from a different direction . I have long thought that there could be an impeller if that is the right word attached below the surface to harness the tidal flow. Not only is this a predictable strength but also a predictable timescale. When I spoke to a man who is far more knowledgeable than me about this type of thing he said that the reason that there was no longer any chatter on the interweb about this is that someone must have patented the idea. Well that was over 10 years ago and still......... nothing 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bikertov Posted June 28, 2022 Share Posted June 28, 2022 15 minutes ago, FlyingFortress said: I have long thought that there could be an impeller if that is the right word attached below the surface to harness the tidal flow. Not only is this a predictable strength but also a predictable timescale. When I spoke to a man who is far more knowledgeable than me about this type of thing he said that the reason that there was no longer any chatter on the interweb about this is that someone must have patented the idea. Well that was over 10 years ago and still......... nothing LOL - well I never, just done a search and it is a real thing ! They are called hydro generators, and yachts use them to generate power when sailing. Similar in looks to a small electric outboard motor, but working in reverse, they can generate up to around 500W of power, but are not cheap ... So you just need to modify the concept for a river cruiser, to lower it overboard when moored in a reasonable flow of water to top up batteries overnight or when stopped for a while. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingFortress Posted June 28, 2022 Share Posted June 28, 2022 I had solar panels fitted to my current boat around 17 years ago and while not cheap IIRC around £1000 then have been brilliant. They even charged in the Wet Shed as they run on light not direct sunlight 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdwardCharlesMitchell Posted June 29, 2022 Author Share Posted June 29, 2022 Replying to Cambridge Cabby..... " "BTW Edward. I have just had a new diesel fitted by Peachments and have nothing but praise for the service we have received." " Thanks very much for this - really appreciate. I was pointed in their direction through a recommendation and I absolutely agree. In advance of the work being done, their responses to all of my questions have been swift. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroadAmbition Posted June 29, 2022 Share Posted June 29, 2022 I have looked at my diary and looked again, if both me and 'B.A' had been available I would have quite happily towed you to Brundall. Hopefully you are now sorted. Best of luck with the engine installation, hope it goes well for you and I endorse your decision got go over to diesel Btw - Would it not have been a whole lot easier to move DS under her own power round to Marine Engineering here in Stalham opposite the MOB and have a new Beta Marine unit fitted? Griff 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vaughan Posted June 29, 2022 Share Posted June 29, 2022 35 minutes ago, BroadAmbition said: I have looked at my diary and looked again, if both me and 'B.A' had been available I would have quite happily towed you to Brundall. Hopefully you are now sorted. Best of luck with the engine installation, hope it goes well for you and I endorse your decision got go over to diesel Btw - Would it not have been a whole lot easier to move DS under her own power round to Marine Engineering here in Stalham opposite the MOB and have a new Beta Marine unit fitted? I would have offered you a tow as well (if I had been in England!) as I also moor in Stalham. I agree that Toby and Daniel of Marine Transmissions do top quality work. I also know Peachments very well, having done a great deal of business with them in the past. I know that they will do a very good installation for you and I highly recommend them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdwardCharlesMitchell Posted June 29, 2022 Author Share Posted June 29, 2022 " " I have looked at my diary and looked again, if both me and 'B.A' had been available I would have quite happily towed you to Brundall. Hopefully you are now sorted. Best of luck with the engine installation, hope it goes well for you and I endorse your decision got go over to diesel Btw - Would it not have been a whole lot easier to move DS under her own power round to Marine Engineering here in Stalham opposite the MOB and have a new Beta Marine unit fitted? " " Griff Thanks so much for the thought Griff - much appreciated. I heard a lot of positive reviews on Nannis. Tracked it back, and heard the same about A R Peachment. All positive. I'm rather looking forward to the tow trip to Brundall actually! I'm staying on board for the tow, and Everitt's have made the whole process really easy. I'll be sorry to say goodbye to silent, vibration and fume-free cruising - but also can't wait to have the kind of freedom that a full tank of diesel (easily refillable everywhere) will offer. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdwardCharlesMitchell Posted June 29, 2022 Author Share Posted June 29, 2022 " " I would have offered you a tow as well (if I had been in England!) as I also moor in Stalham. I agree that Toby and Daniel of Marine Transmissions do top quality work. I also know Peachments very well, having done a great deal of business with them in the past. I know that they will do a very good installation for you and I highly recommend them. " " Thanks so much for the thoughts! Much appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annv Posted June 29, 2022 Share Posted June 29, 2022 Lets hope that this Russia war finishes soon as they supply 20% of uk's diesel (or did) other wise a panda geny supplying 220amps at 12v or 55amps at 48v using a 1/3lt of diesel an hour becomes much more viable for electric propulsion. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdwardCharlesMitchell Posted June 29, 2022 Author Share Posted June 29, 2022 Agree 100%. If no diesel I'll consider erecting a mast and running up some sails! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annv Posted June 29, 2022 Share Posted June 29, 2022 Hi Edward what size battery bank do you have,is it lead acid or Lithium and what size batery charger do you use to charge when on shore power please. I am very interested to know as a learning curve to my going electric/Hybrid. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdwardCharlesMitchell Posted June 29, 2022 Author Share Posted June 29, 2022 Hi John, Ah. I'm afraid I do not have these facts to hand. I don't use a battery charger. When the boat is moored, she is plugged into shore power. But look, where are you based? Are you in Norfolk? If so, I will be aboard from this Saturday 2nd until Tuesday July 5th, not that far from Stalham. If you're local, I'd be happy to show you the engine/batteries. I'm not much of a technical/practical kind of bloke - but I am sure of one piece of intel. If you're contemplating moving from fossil to electric, choose a hybrid. Bearing in mind how few charging points there are, it'll offer you much more independence. Hope this helps. Edward Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annv Posted June 29, 2022 Share Posted June 29, 2022 Hi Edward thanks for that I am in Beccles not sure of the 5th i will email you if i can make it Thanks. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdwardCharlesMitchell Posted June 29, 2022 Author Share Posted June 29, 2022 No worries John, I'm planning on being aboard the following weekend as well. Rail strike permitting. Cheers, Edward Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyg Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 Glad your sorted Edward, forgot to say what a beautiful boat you have very envious. Oh on the other, I wouldn't want your maintenance bills. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdwardCharlesMitchell Posted June 30, 2022 Author Share Posted June 30, 2022 (edited) Thanks Andy! Appreciate the kind words. Oh I dunno. In comparison to having, say, a racehorse, a Ferrari, or an Italian model as a girlfriend - Dawn Star represents quite the bargain. Edited June 30, 2022 by EdwardCharlesMitchell On reflection think that choice of Russian not very well-timed 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kpnut Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 On 28/06/2022 at 17:55, Bikertov said: They are called hydro generators, and yachts use them to generate power when sailing. My daughter did her thesis on micro hydro generation/in-current turbines, which are used a lot and successfully in farms in upland areas where there is no mains power. They manage to power a whole farm using a large bank of batteries. Admittably, these take up a lot of space. She was more interested in the ecological impact on the water course itself. I have no idea why water power, be it tidal or river current, isn’t more widely being progressed, probably to do with funding and govts inclinations. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mouldy Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 On 29/06/2022 at 07:39, BroadAmbition said: Btw - Would it not have been a whole lot easier to move DS under her own power round to Marine Engineering here in Stalham opposite the MOB and have a new Beta Marine unit fitted? Griff If you can get one. We looked at a Beta Marine engine for Moonlight Shadow when the old Perkins finally gave up the ghost. We were quoted 5 - 6 months delivery for a new Beta 50hp diesel, so went for the French option instead. Supply issues may have improved since, but one hopes that the spares situation for Beta is better than for crate engines. At least with Nanni, spares availability is good, with Peachments relatively local as a supplier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mouldy Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 30 minutes ago, kpnut said: I have no idea why water power, be it tidal or river current, isn’t more widely being progressed, probably to do with funding and govts inclinations. A few years ago an idea was mooted to create a barrier across the Severn Estuary, made up of wave powered generators. I can’t remember the exact figures, but it would have generated a significant proportion of our electric requirements, simply by utilising wave motion, which is not dependent on the weather or time of the day. The tide rises and falls 24/7/365. However the same eco warriors that glue themselves to the roads in protest of our use of fossil fuels, protested about the adverse ecological consequences of building such a barrier. Frankly, I’m not sure that they’re capable of logical thought. They want to live in a modern world, where protests are co-ordinated and organised on social media using phones and tablets etc., but cannot provide an alternative method to generate the power we need to sustain our modern way of life. Fossil fuels are clearly not acceptable, nor is nuclear for fear of incidents like Chernobyl and Fukushima, plus the fact that decommissioning nuclear plants is a long winded and difficult operation. Wind power and solar aren’t reliable and covering fields with solar cells when the land could be better used to grow crops seems ludicrous to me, when thousands of square metres of new warehouse roofs offer somewhere to install them, out of sight and making use of otherwise redundant space. Mining the rare metals used in the production of batteries is hardly green and another example of a lack of joined up thinking. It’s a crazy world and I need to get off my soapbox and put it away, before my blood pressure rises any more!! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoggy Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 And if you harness the power of a tidal stream as the water goes slack it picks up somewhere further along the coast so somewhere is always running. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeilB Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 1 hour ago, Mouldy said: If you can get one. We looked at a Beta Marine engine for Moonlight Shadow when the old Perkins finally gave up the ghost. We were quoted 5 - 6 months delivery for a new Beta 50hp diesel, so went for the French option instead. Supply issues may have improved since, but one hopes that the spares situation for Beta is better than for crate engines. At least with Nanni, spares availability is good, with Peachments relatively local as a supplier. I understand the sneaky French stockpiled a load of Kubota blocks, other users like Beta did not, including some genset manufacturers who are suffering now. My new Volvo Penta 50hp is here, just awaiting a slot at Sutton Staithe..... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roy Posted June 30, 2022 Share Posted June 30, 2022 On 29/06/2022 at 12:08, EdwardCharlesMitchell said: Agree 100%. If no diesel I'll consider erecting a mast and running up some sails! What a beautiful elegant boat good luck with the tow 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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