Lethal Salt Surge

[ExSurveyor]

The latest post from our Facebook group.

 

Lethal Levels of Saline Recorded 16th to 22nd September 2022.

Despite what a few people are continuing to post, this is NOT A NORMAL SALT SURGE

We have collated the data that has been collected by volunteers over the past week and plotted to create a visual reference if how far the saline penetrated the system. We have only plotted lethal levels, the salt penetrated far higher than this.

We calculate at least 53km of Broads Rivers and Broads have been damaged, as far as 32km inland. .

We have a growing catalogue of video and images of wildlife deaths, but please keep them coming in. Still the official line is a few thousand fish deaths and nothing on other wildlife, your evidence helps prove them wrong.

Please share as much as possible, so everyone knows the facts..

[ScrumpyCheddar]

Just seen this… One of the Northern boat yards are collecting the dead fish around there Quay side 🐠 Such a shame. 

[FlyingFortress]

There done.

If there is enough interest this will fly.

If not it will wither on the vine.

I don't know enough about it to comment and I missed the sight of dead fish as I was on the Southern Broads at the time 

[ExSurveyor]

Sorry FF, I beat you to it 

Just like buses.

[FlyingFortress]

What's a bus? 

[marshman]

No it was not a normal salt water surge, and each time we have a large one like this, they tend to get further  and further upstream.

It will not have been helped by the fact that as we have had a very dry summer there is perhaps less fresh water coming downstream as I  suspect it is that action, which must help limit the upstream limits.

Sadly its all evidence of global warming, or not, whichever camp your foot is in!

[grendel]

just one question, are the invasive species of crayfish and mussels as vulnerable to salt surge as all the other water species?

[rightsaidfred]

Yes sadly this will go way beyond just a fish kill as bad as that is, it will kill of invertebrates and insect forms which are the bottom of the food chain that provide the food for many birds including swifts and swallows as well as fish, lack of fish will affect Herons, Kingfishers etc. Coots and some duck species will suffer from the lack of molluscs, Otters will turn even more to water birds as a food source and so the food chain goes on, mammals will suffer from tainted drinking water and some plant life will suffer, I will leave it to some with more ecological knowledge than myself to expand on this.

Fred

[Meantime]

A genuine question, and I guess makes little overall difference in the grand scheme of things, but why wasn't a ban on fishing announced by the EA to cover a set area? for a period of time?

I don't fish, never really understand the appeal of it, but each to their own. However it did strike me as rather bizarre to cruise up The Bure seeing lots of dead fish, and some really were quite large, whilst having to stay mid stream to avoid all the fishing lines just down stream of St Benet's.

[Roy]

This is such a shame ! 

If only the Yarmouth tide barrier had been built when first proposed then we could have protected our beloved broads and fresh water creatures from the salt water 

 

[TFrench89]

I saw this on a vlog yesterday, I was almost in tears. There has to be something more that can be done to protect our wildlife. This isn't a small issue from what I could see, there were literally thousands of dead fish in a really small area. 

[FlyingFortress]

Request to mods.

Please merge this thread with the one Ex Surveyor has started.

I don't mind if mine is the one that disappears.

I simply don't know enough about this to comment.

My starting this thread was only in response to some people calling for a discussion on this subject.

Don't know why they could not have done it themselves 

[grendel]

threads merged

 

[Roy]

2 hours ago, TFrench89 said:

I saw this on a vlog yesterday, I was almost in tears. There has to be something more that can be done to protect our wildlife. This isn't a small issue from what I could see, there were literally thousands of dead fish in a really small area. 

This could have been stopped with the flood barrier at Yarmouth if we know we are in for higher tides then it could have been closed to stop the salt water from pushing up. 

This would also help some of the people that would like to get under ph bridge as this would keep the water level more stable. 

Im not saying always have the barrier closed because of silting up rivers but if a barrier was built it would protect the eco system of the broads until the sea comes in over horsey but hopefully that’s a whole away ? 

[FlyingFortress]

23 minutes ago, grendel said:

threads merged

 

👍

[FlyingFortress]

18 minutes ago, Roy said:

This could have been stopped with the flood barrier at Yarmouth if we know we are in for higher tides then it could have been closed to stop the salt water from pushing up. 

This would also help some of the people that would like to get under ph bridge as this would keep the water level more stable. 

Im not saying always have the barrier closed because of silting up rivers but if a barrier was built it would protect the eco system of the broads until the sea comes in over horsey but hopefully that’s a whole away ?

 

Genuine question as I say I simply don't know enough about this.

Would not closing the barrier not cause flooding in The Cobham and Southtown area of GT Yarmouth? A very high tide gets very close to overtopping there already. I have seen it within a few inches of coming over at Bollard Quay in the Southtown area. This would have caused massive damage to property and even loss of life potentially.

 

[Smoggy]

48 minutes ago, Roy said:

This could have been stopped with the flood barrier at Yarmouth if we know we are in for higher tides then it could have been closed to stop the salt water from pushing up. 

This would also help some of the people that would like to get under ph bridge as this would keep the water level more stable. 

Im not saying always have the barrier closed because of silting up rivers but if a barrier was built it would protect the eco system of the broads until the sea comes in over horsey but hopefully that’s a whole away ? 

You may find that if the levels are kept lower in the rivers the sea would seep through at horsey without overtopping causing stability issues in the ground, water is good at finding ways.

[FlyingFortress]

58 minutes ago, Roy said:

This could have been stopped with the flood barrier at Yarmouth if we know we are in for higher tides then it could have been closed to stop the salt water from pushing up. 

This would also help some of the people that would like to get under ph bridge as this would keep the water level more stable. 

Im not saying always have the barrier closed because of silting up rivers but if a barrier was built it would protect the eco system of the broads until the sea comes in over horsey but hopefully that’s a whole away ? 

It looks like I have fat finger syndrome 🤔

What I meant to ask is that if there was a barrier closed at GTY would this not cause flooding in the Cobham and Southtown area of the town.

I have seen the river almost overtop at Bollard Quay Southtown and this would have caused massive damage to property and understructure. Also potentially risk to life. This was on a big Spring tide during a Northerly Gale.

Unless of course you are suggesting the barrier be at the harbour mouth, closing the port which may be acceptable these days with the demise of the offshore industry ( it would sound a death knell to what remains IMHO ) it was certainly not an option in the boom days of the industry.

I kind of assumed you meant somewhere around Haven Bridge.

[MargeandParge]

We haven't seen the E.A Barrier closed at Potter Heigham this time 

We could have missed it. 

Regards Marge and Parge 

[TheQ]

It won't take that long to recover, the 53 flood dumped vast amounts of salt water into the waters supplying Hickling, as did earlier floods in the 30s.. 

When the salt is flushed out, the remaining fish have a huge area to themselves, and will quickly repopulate over two or three years..

I was trying to find reports of the post 76 drought, I haven't found a Broads report but there are plenty showing similar circumstances in the USA..

There is a wobble in the moon's orbit in a 18.61 year cycle, which generates an up to 40cm change in upper and lower levels of tidal range of the sea,  the next peak is due around 2035..

I suspect any flood barrier would have to be upstream of the BA  moorings. Any lower would present a differential of pressure between sea and river through / under Yarmouth. Yarmouth is only on a sand and gravel headland..

Then there is the old river exit near Horsey where dykes are within yards of the sea.. There has always been leakage there, upsetting the current balance may cause problems that only a hydrology engineer could work out.

 

 

[Lulu]

Cruised down the Ant this morning and sad to see so many large dead fish from Irstead to Ludham. Lots of foam around Irstead area,  which having read on Vaughan’s memories of Thorpe and the Broads thread, assume the foam is to do with the brackish water? 

[Meantime]

58 minutes ago, Lulu said:

Cruised down the Ant this morning and sad to see so many large dead fish from Irstead to Ludham. Lots of foam around Irstead area,  which having read on Vaughan’s memories of Thorpe and the Broads thread, assume the foam is to do with the brackish water? 

Strange you should mention that. We noticed a lot of White foam around Irstead and where The Ant joins Barton Broad, on Saturday the 17th. We wondered about it and just assumed it was the wind blowing across Barton Broad and into the mouth of The Ant. We went to The Cross Keys at Dilham the next morning and only just made it under Wayford Bridge which had clearance of 6ft 5in. We have never failed to pass that bridge, but that was the least clearance I have seen.

[stumpy]

Just seen on my news feed a piece from BBC East that EnvAg have rescued 45,000 fish from Womack, a trustworthy witness who watched the operation reckoned 6 or 7 thousand. Who does one believe?

[rightsaidfred]

9 minutes ago, stumpy said:

Just seen on my news feed a piece from BBC East that EnvAg have rescued 45,000 fish from Womack, a trustworthy witness who watched the operation reckoned 6 or 7 thousand. Who does one believe?

That is a pathetic PR exercise and was a response from repeated phone calls for assistance, it was only fish suffering from lack of oxygen that had run into ditches etc that were rescued, they did not close the barrier at HW that could have saved as many, the hundreds of thousands that have died in open water have been ignored in reports although there was very little anyone could have done.

Fred

 

[rightsaidfred]

On 24/09/2022 at 11:26, Meantime said:

A genuine question, and I guess makes little overall difference in the grand scheme of things, but why wasn't a ban on fishing announced by the EA to cover a set area? for a period of time?

I don't fish, never really understand the appeal of it, but each to their own. However it did strike me as rather bizarre to cruise up The Bure seeing lots of dead fish, and some really were quite large, whilst having to stay mid stream to avoid all the fishing lines just down stream of St Benet's.

The EA didnt even close the barrier at HW let alone anything else.

The banning of fishing is unecessary as the fish affected wont feed but once they do will need anglers bait as there will be very little if any natural food still available.

Fred