Is This My Boat ? I'm A Frayed Knot !

[Bikertov]

 

As you will have seen from my thread "A Cruise on the Ouse", I recently bought a boat after many years dreaming of boat ownership

My boat, called A Frayed Knot, is a Broom 29. She was built on the Norfolk Broads, although she has currently found her way to St. Ives, on the River Great Ouse. Maybe one day, I will take her home to Norfolk !

Whilst that thread will chart my usage, trips out and about, and "news on the Ouse", this thread will be my story of owning, maintaining and upgrading the boat.

No doubt I will have many questions to help me understand my boat, to help fix it and improve it. And I know the members of this forum are an encyclopaedia of knowledge and experience who are always willing to help and share.

So, here goes ...

[Smoggy]

Just remember how ever the journey takes you never resort to using the F word, boat ownership has huge ups and downs but don't ever utter the word "finished" in the same sentence as "boat" ,we all know you will be lying through your teeth, we know santa isn't real, no one really believes in fairies, so don't even consider it.

Oh yeah except Gracie.... But that's another wine induced planet.

[ExSurveyor]

Congratulations, very nice boat.

[Bikertov]

The first area that has come up already on my other thread is around the engine, so I will bring those points over to here to continue 

7 hours ago, Jbx5 said:

Some of the early Broom 29s had this Nanni 37hp engine, looks like their hire fleet were fitted with them as well. Good engine if a little underpowered and better than the 50hp Volvo Md22 which was also fitted at first. A lot of the last private ones built had a 62hp engine fitted. 

John 

From what I can tell from original documentation about the Broom 29, including the owners manual I have been given, and the sales info from the broker, the engine fitted is a Nanni 4.150 HE. This produces 37.5 HP and is showing 6200 hours. I would appear to be the original engine from when built.

[Bikertov]

This is my engine ...

[Bikertov]

4 hours ago, Vaughan said:

In which case your engine is quite an early one, and probably has the word KUBOTA pressed into the top of the valve rocker box?  They are a good engine and were used a lot for boats in Italy, where they have a horsepower limit on the size of a hire boat engine.  Should be easily powerful enough for your boat.

The engine number is on a small tin plaque on top of the flywheel bell housing, where it may be hidden behind the gearbox oil cooler.

I couldn't see a plaque, but will look again next time, now I know where it should be 

[Troyboy]

Lovely looking boat. You must be very proud of it.

[Bikertov]

4 hours ago, Vaughan said:

OK, so here's how most of us limit the speed on hire boats.  I hope I am not giving away any trade secrets!   

Take a standard electrical "Domino" or "Chocolate block" electrical connection, with the hole the right size to fit the inner wire of the 33C Morse control cable : ....

 

So if you find a little thing like this on one of your Morse cables under the dashboard, just loosen the grub screws and let it slide.  You may find you have a lot more power available!

The Morse lever is on the side of the helm position, and not on the  dashboard.

Having put the level on full throttle, I could not see any further rotational movement possible at the end, as suggested by Dom

But I will take the Morse lever off to check anyway. 

 

[Bikertov]

Of course, it might just be that with 37 HP (when new), maybe now down to nearer 30HP at 6000 hours and 27 years old, that the engine "is what it is" and I will never be able to get up on the plane between locks ...

[Bikertov]

16 minutes ago, Smoggy said:

Just remember how ever the journey takes you never resort to using the F word, boat ownership has huge ups and downs but don't ever utter the word "finished" in the same sentence as "boat" ,we all know you will be lying through your teeth, we know santa isn't real, no one really believes in fairies, so don't even consider it.

Oh yeah except Gracie.... But that's another wine induced planet.

The F word doesn't feature well in my vocabulary. Too many unfinished projects are testament to that, and the boat will without doubt be no different  

[ExSurveyor]

39 minutes ago, Bikertov said:

This is my engine ...

The same engine as in my 1988 Sheerline 740, mine is on hydraulic drive and shows 3700 hours. Seems to go okay, but it was around Horning. It is going to be used on the Southern areas so I will have to see how it goes although I am not to worried about speed.

[dom]

There's a video of Cadet 1 on Youtube, when she sold at Summercraft. I presume from the condition that Summercraft's owners had her for while (they used to be my dad's best friends, but sadly I've lost touch with them over the years).

The engine in her was listed as a 50hp Nanni 4.220HE by NYA. You'd think they'd get it right, having a site next door to the main Nanni distributor. If Cadet 1 has the 220, you'd think the later Cadets would too? It looks visually very similar to your image too.

 

[dom]

https://www.peachment.co.uk/discontinued/4-150he/

https://www.peachment.co.uk/discontinued/4-220he/

Longer heat exchanger with 4 bolts down the side shown in your image looks more like the 4.220 to me?

[Bikertov]

41 minutes ago, dom said:

https://www.peachment.co.uk/discontinued/4-150he/

https://www.peachment.co.uk/discontinued/4-220he/

Longer heat exchanger with 4 bolts down the side shown in your image looks more like the 4.220 to me?

Very interesting Dom ...

The 4.220HE (50HP) was listed as an option for £990 when new (in the 1995 price list)

The 4 bolts to 3 would suggest I have the 4.220 ? 

I will try and compare my engine more closely against the pictures in the manuals when I am next on board, and try to find the ident plaque too.   

And there are a lot of similarities to Cadet 1 - mine was Cadet 5 when built. But also a few differences too.

[dom]

40 minutes ago, Bikertov said:

The 4 bolts to 3 would suggest I have the 4.220 ? 

I will try and compare my engine more closely against the pictures in the manuals when I am next on board, and try to find the ident plaque too.  

https://www.peachment.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/User-Manual-4.200HE-4.220HE-5.280HE.pdf

Ident plate location is shown on page 11. My money is definitely on the 220. The heat exchanger is the same and the lifting eye/injector position looks the same too. Good if so, as it suggests that you may have the same issue Mouldy mentioned with prop size, rather than an aging engine. 6000hrs is significant, but like cars and motorway miles, heavy use and regular servicing is often better than infrequent use. Modern diesels ought to cope with 10k hours+ and potentially a lot more if oil is changed regularly.

[Bikertov]

12 minutes ago, dom said:

Ident plate location is shown on page 11. My money is definitely on the 220. The heat exchanger is the same and the lifting eye/injector position looks the same too. 

OK, I found it

Took a photo from the rear of the engine months ago, when I was originally looking at the boat.

Very much hidden in front of the gearbox. Whilst I can't make out any details right now, at least I know there is a plaque there, and will check when next on board.

[grendel]

Pah, who needs 37hp, water rail is 26 foot, made of wood ( so heavier) and manages quite well on the 3 cylinder nanni that may once have produced 19hp.

[Troyboy]

 

 

12 hours ago, dom said:

There's a video of Cadet 1 on Youtube, when she sold at Summercraft. I presume from the condition that Summercraft's owners had her for while (they used to be my dad's best friends, but sadly I've lost touch with them over the years).

The engine in her was listed as a 50hp Nanni 4.220HE by NYA. You'd think they'd get it right, having a site next door to the main Nanni distributor. If Cadet 1 has the 220, you'd think the later Cadets would too? It looks visually very similar to your image too.

 

I was talking to the owner of this boat in the summer. He was thinking of selling her for a flybridge. I haven't seen it come up for sale since then. It still looks good.

[Bikertov]

22 minutes ago, Troyboy said:

I was talking to the owner of this boat in the summer. He was thinking of selling her for a flybridge. I haven't seen it come up for sale since then. It still looks good.

From the video, it looks in excellent condition, and is quite well spec'ed. I wonder what it sold for, as it was only 2 years ago or so ?

[annv]

Hi The base engine is a Kubota to get the exact engine details they will be cast into the block. The Kubota engine no will be on the rocker cover and sprayed over when Peachments convert/build it in to a Nanni and place THEIR ref no on the flywheel cover. John

[oldgregg]

20 hours ago, ExSurveyor said:

The same engine as in my 1988 Sheerline 740, mine is on hydraulic drive and shows 3700 hours. Seems to go okay, but it was around Horning. It is going to be used on the Southern areas so I will have to see how it goes although I am not to worried about speed.

Those originally had a BMC1.5 in them, so it's going to be better than those (and they were never slow with the BMC in).

[Vaughan]

 

Your boat is a slightly larger version of a boat we called Capri, moulded by Aquafibre and fitted out by Crown Cruisers for France. We had about 25 of them (very comfortable boats) and they all had the early Nanni 4150 - with KUBOTA stamped on the rocker box.

So I am thinking that your boat spec may be correct, but the boat has since been re-engined with a 4220.

3000 hours is hardly anything for an ex hire boat.  Not even 4 seasons, in fact.

So you may have got yourself a good deal, there!    

[Smoggy]

Being ex hire probably means the engine hasn't been sat around enough for internal corrosion to occur and as Vaughan says 3000 hours isn't much on a diesel. 

[annv]

Perhaps i should add that Nanni's are French builds on a Kurbota base engine and Peachments's are the local Agents. Beta are a English firm that do the same thing on a Kurbota block, they also use John Deer ie Ford industrial engines for bigger engines. John

[Bikertov]

5 hours ago, Vaughan said:

Your boat is a slightly larger version of a boat we called Capri, moulded by Aquafibre and fitted out by Crown Cruisers for France. We had about 25 of them (very comfortable boats) and they all had the early Nanni 4150 - with KUBOTA stamped on the rocker box.

So I am thinking that your boat spec may be correct, but the boat has since been re-engined with a 4220.

3000 hours is hardly anything for an ex hire boat.  Not even 4 seasons, in fact.

So you may have got yourself a good deal, there!    

According to Craig's database, and the paperwork I have, my boat was in Brooms hire fleet for the first 7 years, and since then it has been private.

http://www.broads.org.uk/wiki2018/index.php?title=Boat_Details&BoatId=479

It was brought to the RGO around 7 years ago, and I don't think much used in at least the last 4 years if not longer. On that basis, I reckon that the 6000 hours showing (not 3000) may suggest it is the original engine. To my untrained eye, it certainly doesn't look like it has been renewed in recent years.

I'm now itching to get back onboard and check the ident plaque now I know where it is, to confirm either way what is fitted. Without setting my hopes too high, if it is the bigger engine then I will be very happy.

If that is the case, and with the knowledge now that it is was fitted out by Broom themselves, I may well have got a good deal !