Is This My Boat ? I'm A Frayed Knot !

[Mouldy]

8 hours ago, dom said:

That's a result. I did wonder if Nanni had switched to a common block on later "Mk.2" models and just detuned the smaller ones, but better for you that it's the 220HE model. Jones' have sold an Ocean 29ST after yours where I'm sure the same applies too. It was only looking at that which made me realise that the 29ST is probably my ideal boat, as it'll go under Wroxham bridge. Too pricey at the moment though unfortunately.

I did think about going over to Jones' earlier to have a look at the Fairline Mirage 29 they've got on brokerage, but never quite got around to it. They seem a ridiculously popular boat around here. Only thing which puts me off is the outdrive. The one at Jones' is the less common aft cabin model which has twins on shaft, but it's the 3 cylinder Volvo which must be pretty unrefined. I also think the aft cockpit's a really good looking boat for its age, but the aft cabin model is less so.

A lot of the Ocean 29’s I’ve seen advertised, seem to have the 5 cylinder, 62hp Nanni fitted and as @Bikertov said, the price premium is quite high.  The ones advertised on The Broads usually are on the market at 75 - 85k.  Although, with the folding screen and hood, they will be able to access more of the Broadland rivers, the internal fit-out from the saloon/galley forward appears very similar and I don’t really understand the huge price difference.

7 hours ago, Bikertov said:

 

So another strange anomaly on my boat is the gearbox ...

The original brochure, price list and owners manual all state that the standard gearbox with the Nanni engines is a Hurth manual box, with a hydraulic Hurth box as an option.

But ... I seem to have a PRM / Newage 160D2 (2:1 ratio)

Is that a good thing or a bad thing ?

Ours has a PRM box.  I also understand that they’re fairly commonly fitted on Broads cruisers.

[Vaughan]

Nanni in France supply the Hurth gearbox as their standard but most Broads yards have the Borg Warner or PRM box.

The Borg Warner is almost indestructible but has the small problem that the astern gear works on sun and planet gears which mean a big reduction in output shaft revs, hence the need to rev up a lot in astern.

The PRM is a "twin disk" box which has exactly the same power and speed in ahead or astern, so it is perfect for twin engined boats, where all you have to do is change the direction of the Morse cables in order to "hand" the propellors.  The box can also be installed inclined in 3 different positions, for ease of aligning the engine to the shaft.

Only problem is the the output shaft does not incorporate a thrust bearing, so be gentle when changing gears and don't let them crash. Keep the engine tick-over down to around 700RPM.

[Vaughan]

I forgot to mention that the PRM box has a "get you home" device in case of clutch plate failure or low oil pressure.  If you take one of the two covers off the top of the box, you will see it has a forked metal tongue sticking downwards into the gears. Turn this plate round and put it back on, and the box is now locked in ahead gear, so that the boat can be driven.

[Bikertov]

3 hours ago, Vaughan said:

I forgot to mention that the PRM box has a "get you home" device in case of clutch plate failure or low oil pressure.  

Yes, I spotted something about that in the manual I found online. Will have to have a closer look to see if I can / how to access the specific area.

[Vaughan]

27 minutes ago, Bikertov said:

Yes, I spotted something about that in the manual I found online. Will have to have a closer look to see if I can / how to access the specific area.

I wouldn't worry about it, just remember it is there.  I have only ever had to use it once!

[dom]

5 hours ago, Mouldy said:

A lot of the Ocean 29’s I’ve seen advertised, seem to have the 5 cylinder, 62hp Nanni fitted and as @Bikertov said, the price premium is quite high.  The ones advertised on The Broads usually are on the market at 75 - 85k.  Although, with the folding screen and hood, they will be able to access more of the Broadland rivers, the internal fit-out from the saloon/galley forward appears very similar and I don’t really understand the huge price difference.

I think if you compare prices of the 29ST and things like aft cockpit Sheerlines, the price is probably just fair market value, with a slight premium for the Broom name. I think it's probably more a case that the HT is often good value, the price possibly having been pulled down by ex-hire boats, nearly 3 times as many on the Broads and the two tone superstructure and/or pilot rails on some, which are a bit marmite.

My dad's best mate had a 29ft sedan with a Perkins 6.354 in it when I was young, so I've always had a love for big, multi-cylinder diesels. A 29ST with a Nanni 5 cylinder would be heaven for me, but it's beyond my budget at the moment unfortunately. I'm currently holding out to see what turns up on the market in the hope of finding something which'll pass under Wroxham in normal conditions. At the same time, I'm also looking around the Great Ouse and might consider something like a Fairline Mirage there if the right boat comes along. I suspect the ideal thing might be an aft-cockpit Mirage soft top with a big single diesel, as i could keep it locally on the Ouse, move it to the Broads later and still be able to get under Wroxham - but they're few and far between.

 

[Karizma]

15 hours ago, Vaughan said:

Only problem is the the output shaft does not incorporate a thrust bearing, so be gentle when changing gears and don't let them crash. Keep the engine tick-over down to around 700RPM.

Don't want to hi-jack @Bikertov great thread, but could I ask: how do you change the tick over speed on a Nanni (4.190HE) as I've always thought mines ticking over a little fast?

I've read there's to typical methods depending on what engine you have - adjusting the cable length at the throttle linkage (which sounds easy), or adjusting a screw(?) on the fuel pump (which sounds scary)?

[Vaughan]

6 hours ago, Karizma said:

or adjusting a screw(?) on the fuel pump (which sounds scary)?

Have a look at the control lever on the injector pump and you will see it has a small setscrew sticking up on either side of it and each one has a small locknut.  The max speed screw may have a wire seal on it, from the factory.

Put the Morse control in neutral, and the screw which the lever butts up against will be the tick-over adjustment.

Run the engine, loosen the locknut and adjust the screw to where you want it. Then tighten the locknut. 

Rev the engine on the Morse lever and then return to neutral.  If the engine does not come back to tick-over you may need to adjust the travel of the Morse cable, which you can do by tightening or loosening the screw terminal on the end of it.

[JanetAnne]

Can I suggest disconnecting the morse cable end from the engine first? That way you can set the engine up as required and then adjust the cable length to suit before refitting. Your be surprised how many engine issues are caused by the bits bolted to them rather than the engines themselves!

[Bikertov]

On 13/11/2023 at 06:26, Mouldy said:

A lot of the Ocean 29’s I’ve seen advertised, seem to have the 5 cylinder, 62hp Nanni fitted

Interestingly, the one at Jones was listed as having a 4 cylinder 4.150HE, 37HP.

I wonder if they are making assumptions on the engines without checking what is actually fitted ?

[Mouldy]

3 hours ago, Bikertov said:

Interestingly, the one at Jones was listed as having a 4 cylinder 4.150HE, 37HP.

I wonder if they are making assumptions on the engines without checking what is actually fitted ?

I get failing to distinguish between two four cylinder diesels, but spotting a five pot should be quite easy, shouldn’t it?

[dom]

The last one sold at Jones' definitely wasn't a 5 cylinder. It looked like it was a 4.220HE, but was described as a 4.150HE exactly the same as Bikertov's.

[mikeyboy1966]

On 09/11/2023 at 08:49, mikeyboy1966 said:

I saw a chap advertising on face book for mobile pump out,

think the cost was £60/£80.

that’s not something you’d want to do weekly

My mistake on this one,£39.99 one off.

£34.99 as a monthly sign up.

bit more reasonable.

[Bikertov]

Are you finished and winterised for the winter now Mike, or are you planning to still get out on the river ?

[mikeyboy1966]

9 hours ago, Bikertov said:

Are you finished and winterised for the winter now Mike, or are you planning to still get out on the river ?

Hoping to get out on the boat this weekend,

I guess the EA boss got back off holiday and kicked things into touch.

[Bikertov]

 

Either the river levels in St. Ives have seriously dropped, or my boat is now pretending to be a car for the next 4 months ...

 

[mikeyboy1966]

What’s the 1st Wallet  emptying exercise then?

[floydraser]

10 minutes ago, Bikertov said:

 

Either the river levels in St. Ives have seriously dropped, or my boat is now pretending to be a car for the next 4 months ...

 

I get this: you've been confused by the Ranworth thread where they keep referring to car parks. I shudder to think where you've put the car! 

[Bikertov]

8 minutes ago, floydraser said:

I get this: you've been confused by the Ranworth thread where they keep referring to car parks. I shudder to think where you've put the car! 

Oh cr@p - I thought that down ramp by the moorings was to the underground carpark, and the guy was just shouting "be careful, that is slippery" 

[Bikertov]

3 minutes ago, mikeyboy1966 said:

What’s the 1st Wallet  emptying exercise then?

Good question - I've just been sent the agreement and invoice for the "mooring" until next March !

So yes, time to work out what work I am going to do over the winter, and how much of it I can do myself.

Firstly, I will probably go back every 2-3 weeks to check on the boat, make sure the battery charger is doing it's job etc, and try to do what I can instead of the marina workshop.

Last weekend I put in a dehumidifier, and a temporary tubular heater in the engine bay. The heater is probably not strictly necessary if I'm out the water, but just in case any water pumps still have some water in them.

Other things on my list so far:

• The shower valve was seized up, so I've removed it to take home, clean up and fit a service kit.
• Map out what all of the through-hull fittings are, where they appear inside, and label them up.
• Refresh anti-fouling
• Draw up a wiring diagram of sorts, and establish what needs upgrading - in particular
  • Lack of fusing from the main battery feeds (to protect the wiring)
  • Add busbars to remove multiple direct battery connections
  • Possibly combine the two domestic battery banks (House and Inverter) into one
  • No obvious switchover or isolation between shore power and the inverter
  • Investigate missing switch for the nav lights
  • Investigate various other non-working lights
  • Upgrade cabin lights to LED's where possible
  • Fit engine bay lighting
  • Fit 12V "cigar lighter" accessory points and USB charging points
  • Fit digital voltmeter readouts for each battery bank
  • Fit a new radio/MP3 player
  • Fit some additional 240V sockets
  • Look into adding some solar panels

I will also get the boatyard to do a deep clean and polish of the hull and superstructure, as well as a full engine and drive-train service.

[MargeandParge]

Just a question about battery banks your combining domestic and inverter. Should they be different types of battery ie pure leisure for domestic and dual starter leisure for the inverter because of the loading. 

Kindest Regards Marge and Parge 

[Bikertov]

24 minutes ago, MargeandParge said:

Just a question about battery banks your combining domestic and inverter. Should they be different types of battery ie pure leisure for domestic and dual starter leisure for the inverter because of the loading. 

Kindest Regards Marge and Parge 

Aa far as I can tell, there are 5 identical AGM batteries, currently arranged as 1x engine/starter, 2x domestic bank and 2x inverter bank. 

The alternator has an old but working 3-way "X-Split" charge splitter, and the 240V charger is a 3-output Victron smart unit, so the current charging set-up is OK. The inverter is a Victron 2000VA unit

But my thought is, why not just have a single bank of 4 for both domestic and inverter. That way each can use more capacity if needed, with less deep discharging of each battery, rather than both functions only having half the capacity available ?

If I'm going to rewire the batteries anyway, when putting in busbars and fusing, then to reconfigure the banks now won't be a major additional cost, if any.

[Karizma]

5 minutes ago, Bikertov said:

But my thought is, why not just have a single bank of 4 for both domestic and inverter. That way each can use more capacity if needed, with less deep discharging of each battery, rather than both functions only having half the capacity available ?

@Bikertov thats exactly how Karizma was wired up and I had exactly the same thoughts, so combined the banks together - seems to work as planned.

[Bikertov]

Just now, Karizma said:

@Bikertov thats exactly how Karizma was wired up and I had exactly the same thoughts, so combined the banks together - seems to work as planned.

I followed your own electrical thread with great interest, and ideally would replicate a lot of what you did. 

Whilst I really like the whole Victron world you put in, I'm not sure I want to spend too much on all the monitoring side as you did, at least not right now. But certainly I agree with all the busbars, additional fuse panels etc - it seems a good way to go, and allows for future expansion a lot more easily, and full protection of cables.

[Karizma]

1 hour ago, Bikertov said:

Other things on my list so far:

• The shower valve was seized up, so I've removed it to take home, clean up and fit a service kit.
• Map out what all of the through-hull fittings are, where they appear inside, and label them up.
• Refresh anti-fouling
• Draw up a wiring diagram of sorts, and establish what needs upgrading - in particular
  • Lack of fusing from the main battery feeds (to protect the wiring)
  • Add busbars to remove multiple direct battery connections
  • Possibly combine the two domestic battery banks (House and Inverter) into one
  • No obvious switchover or isolation between shore power and the inverter
  • Investigate missing switch for the nav lights
  • Investigate various other non-working lights
  • Upgrade cabin lights to LED's where possible
  • Fit engine bay lighting
  • Fit 12V "cigar lighter" accessory points and USB charging points
  • Fit digital voltmeter readouts for each battery bank
  • Fit a new radio/MP3 player
  • Fit some additional 240V sockets
  • Look into adding some solar panels

I will also get the boatyard to do a deep clean and polish of the hull and superstructure, as well as a full engine and drive-train service.

Great list - most of it looks very familiar ................

I'd recommend adding to your list all underwater checks whilst she's out of the water:

• Check / replace rudder bushes/gland packing
• Check / replace anodes
• Check / replace stuffing box gland packing
• Check cutlass bearing for wear
• Service bow thruster
• Check all through holes - full and free movement
• Clean depth sensor and speed impellor / lubricate with ZX1

The first time we took Karizma out (which was last winter) we ended up replacing the cutlass bearing and servicing the rudder bushes - both jobs weren't on our original list!

Enjoy your first winter of servicing / getting to know your boat - I really enjoyed the process, as every day is a 'school day'