Is This My Boat ? I'm A Frayed Knot !

[Rbartram]

7 hours ago, dom said:

If you don't mind me asking, which one?

Electrical tech 

[Bikertov]

Firstly I need to decide how far I want to go with upgrades.

Realistically, it is a 29' nearly 30 year old boat - there is only so much that can be squeezed in or that is really needed 

[Smoggy]

Use it for a season before you spend too much, once you've done that you're requirements will likely change.

[Bikertov]

What I do need to do for certain is upgrade the battery connections as there is a lack of fusing. This will need to be completed in the next 12 months in time for the next BSS inspection.

From my research, and looking at how Karizma and MikeyBoy have done theirs, the best thing is to use Mega fuseholders and bus bars, to take connections away from the battery terminals.

Also a must is to reconnect the Nav lights circuit, which will entail some switch reconfiguration, and at least some additional 12V / USB outlets and 240V outlets for device charging.

But what I will postpone is stuff like wholesale rewiring and solar panels.

[Turnoar]

I wonder if the nav lights were never connected in the first place. Was she launched for hire work but night ready in terms of external fittings?

Engine ignition and refrigeration are the electric must haves!

[dom]

3 hours ago, Bikertov said:

But what I will postpone is stuff like wholesale rewiring and solar panels.

Have you got a mains hookup on your mooring?

[Bikertov]

4 hours ago, Turnoar said:

I wonder if the nav lights were never connected in the first place. Was she launched for hire work but night ready in terms of external fittings?

She was originally a hire boat for about 7 years before passing into private ownership.

I traced some wiring, and found loose wires under the dash panel that turned out to be the Nav lights, that do actually work !

It would seem that at some point an extra circuit was added, probably for the switch labelled "Instrument" for the Speed and Depth logger, but there was no blank space for it, so they just disconnected the Nav light wires, and used the switch position for the "Instrument" switch

What I plan to do is relocate the switch on the dash for the water pump down to the galley, next to the water tank gauge on the panel below the sink (so an obvious location) and then use the freed-up switch position for a new Nav light switch to the existing wires.

 

4 hours ago, Turnoar said:

Engine ignition and refrigeration are the electric must haves!

The engine ignition definitely works, but I suspect a problem with the fridge. So I have a Waeco fridge, that I happened to pull out as I wanted to look under the sink at the plumbing. When I took it out, I saw this black unit that it was wired into:

 

I'm sure someone will confirm it, but it is a Waeco EPS-100B 240V to 24V converter/switch. As I understand, the unit should give a 24V output to the fridge when the mains is live, and switch to 12V from the batteries when the mains is off

Great you will say, as I thought when I saw it - except it doesn't seem to work ??

Whilst the fridge works off the 12V house battery when the fridge 12V breaker is on and the "fridge" switch is on, it doesn't seem to work when 240V is live (shore power or the inverter). The voltage stays at 12V, and if you drop the breaker on the 12V panel the fridge goes off

There does seem to be a live 240V going to the unit (only checked with a non-contact mains tester so far), but no 24V out.

When I am next on the boat, I will remove the unit completely, temporarily hardwire the fridge direct to its 12V battery feed, and take the unit home for a proper test.

 

[Bikertov]

1 hour ago, dom said:

Have you got a mains hookup on your mooring?

Yes, I have a mains shore power hook-up as well as a Victron Phoenix Compact 2000W inverter

There was an initial concern that the inverter output and shore connections weren't isolated, but I have since found out that there is a contactor that automatically switches between the two main feeds

[grendel]

I can remember when we rewired Royal Tudor, I managed to obtain a section of busbar from a 400A MCCB, this was then cut in half for positive and negative busbars, so at least one boat has a set of brass busbars that are 3/4" square cross section, I dont think that will fail any time soon.

[Smoggy]

If you don't want to fit more switches how about the instrument switch to nav lights and instruments from ignition live so they come on with engine, that's how I did mine.

Being a twin I used a couple of diodes and a relay to a fuse box so either engine turns on depth and engine bay fan without cross feeding and they still have seperate fuses.

[Mouldy]

I can’t find a photo of the instrument panel on NL, but when we wanted to refit the wiper on the centre windscreen, which was missing with the holes filled with plugs when we bought it, we needed to create another switch position on the already full switch panel.  Paul (Swancraft), moved the horn button, which was originally operated by a sprung switch, to a button on the instrument panel, near the engine stop.

We should be on the boat next weekend, so if I can’t find an existing photo, I’ll take one to show you.

[Jbx5]

He loves dash panels does Paul as he did ours a couple of weeks ago 😂 

 

[Smoggy]

If redoing switches I had some surrounds done fairly cheaply from drawing via fleabay.

Top right and bottom right. 

[Bikertov]

 

Thanks for the replies everyone, with your dashboard pictures.

As you can see from mine above, I only have 6 switch positions. So short of a wholesale replacement of the dashboard panel, that is the space I have to work with

My options to get a Nav light switch back in there seem to be:

1) Relocate the water pump switch next to the water tank gauge in the galley, which is just below and the other side of the bulkhead

2) Remove the Horn switch, and provide another means of activating it from the dash area, like a button or something

3) Remove the "Inst" switch, that powers up the Speed/Depth log (from it's own 12V breaker), and use a smaller slide or toggle switch, or maybe as has been suggested power it from the ignition either direct or via a relay energised by the ignition, that can hide in the space under the dash panel.

Having said all that, ideally I would also like to get in a USB charging point, as well as a digital voltmeter to show both the engine and house batteries readings.

 

 

[Regulo]

Why do you have two wiper switches, could they be paralleled onto one switch? 

[Mouldy]

28 minutes ago, Bikertov said:

 

Thanks for the replies everyone, with your dashboard pictures.

As you can see from mine above, I only have 6 switch positions. So short of a wholesale replacement of the dashboard panel, that is the space I have to work with

My options to get a Nav light switch back in there seem to be:

1) Relocate the water pump switch next to the water tank gauge in the galley, which is just below and the other side of the bulkhead

2) Remove the Horn switch, and provide another means of activating it from the dash area, like a button or something

3) Remove the "Inst" switch, that powers up the Speed/Depth log (from it's own 12V breaker), and use a smaller slide or toggle switch, or maybe as has been suggested power it from the ignition either direct or via a relay energised by the ignition, that can hide in the space under the dash panel.

Having said all that, ideally I would also like to get in a USB charging point, as well as a digital voltmeter to show both the engine and house batteries readings.

 

If you went option 2, that would be similar to ours on NL.  We have a button for the horn between the ignition switch and warning lights.  It’s not labelled, but it’s there and to be fair is about as effective as an ashtray on a motorbike.  The horn is louder inside the boat than out.  We have three further gauges mounted in the raised area towards the screens, for fuel level, black water tank and another volt meter for the domestic batteries.

I’ve searched my photos and found these:

 

Plenty of room there for a couple of instruments and a USB charger port.

[Jbx5]

29 minutes ago, Regulo said:

Why do you have two wiper switches, could they be paralleled onto one switch? 

good point we only have 1 switch for both wipers 

[Bikertov]

38 minutes ago, Regulo said:

Why do you have two wiper switches, could they be paralleled onto one switch? 

Don't ask me, it was already like that !

But actually, that did also cross my mind. Would I need a two pole switch, to keep them electrically isolated, or can they just parallel up on the same pole of one of the switches ?

[Mouldy]

11 minutes ago, Jbx5 said:

good point we only have 1 switch for both wipers 

If they’re anything like mine, they’re a tad noisy, so having them on separate switches means that you can operate them individually as and when needed.

[Bikertov]

28 minutes ago, Mouldy said:

If you went option 2, that would be similar to ours on NL.  We have a button for the horn between the ignition switch and warning lights.  It’s not labelled, but it’s there and to be fair is about as effective as an ashtray on a motorbike.  The horn is louder inside the boat than out.  

 

A very similar engine dash - not surprising seeing as they are both Broom 29's with a Nanni engine !

That horn button placement works very well, so I could easily replicate that under my RPM gauge to free up the horn switch position

And yes, my horn is also useless and sounds like a wet f*rt 

[Smoggy]

You may need a couple of chunky diodes to seperate wiper motors depending on type if on one switch, a lot of the self parking ones can get out of synch and one will cross feed to the other and keep them going when you turn them off.

I used alternator diodes in line to mine and they work fine but I have intermittent settings, it's not often it rains hard enough to need wipers permanently on at river speeds.

[Bikertov]

 

39 minutes ago, Mouldy said:

We have three further gauges mounted in the raised area towards the screens, for fuel level, black water tank and another volt meter for the domestic batteries.

I’ve searched my photos and found these:

Plenty of room there for a couple of instruments and a USB charger port.

 

As my upper dashboard area is unused, I guess that is also an option, although I would need to do a bit of GRP butchering and find cable routes and access

I don't currently have a fuel gauge, so that is certainly something else that would be useful. Not sure if there is a blank for a sender on the tank, so something else to investigate ...

 

 

[Mouldy]

1 minute ago, Bikertov said:

 

 

As my upper dashboard area is unused, I guess that is also an option, although I would need to do a bit of GRP butchering and find cable routes and access

I don't currently have a fuel gauge, so that is certainly something else that would be useful. Not sure if there is a blank for a sender on the tank, so something else to investigate ...

 

 

I believe that Paul accessed that area by removing the light fitting in the galley, but I have been known to be wrong!🙄  The additional  instruments were already fitted when we bough the boat.  I’m not afraid to admit that I tend to leave ‘tinkering’ to someone who knows what they’re doing.  I’m scared of cocking up and having to pay for someone to undo my wrong doings and rectify them, so if I know I can’t do it, I leave it to someone who does!

[annv]

Hi Bika This is my dash as made by Wards, Ref fuel gauge you dont have to have a hole in the tank you can get a fuel sender that works on pressure that fits in the fuel line next to the tank. John

[dom]

2 hours ago, Bikertov said:

My options to get a Nav light switch back in there seem to be...

Bear in mind, you may need more than just one switch. For Broads night nav, you'll want a spotlight or two. Generally, it's best not to use them and to rely on night vision, but you really need something if you hit a particularly dark spot, encounter an obstacle, or for mooring. I should think on the RGO, there's a greater need for lights like this as it's narrower in places and more bridges, locks, etc?

If you end up on the Broads, it's possible you might also decide to fit an anchor windlass.

Personally, I'd keep the wipers on separate switches. Every boat I've been on, they're invariably annoying in use, so being able to just run one will at least mitigate the annoyance. I'd move the horn initially to a round momentary switch below the rev counter.

If you struggle to find replacement switches, let me know and I can always show you how to run nav lights from a momentary switch if needs be.