Is This My Boat ? I'm A Frayed Knot !

[Vaughan]

If you are considering a diversion it is best to fit a Y valve on the pipe between the toilet and the holding tank, not forgetting a seacock on the hull skin fitting, for safety and for passing regulations.  That way you don't need to use the toilet tank at all, unless you are in an area where pumpouts are practicable.

[Smoggy]

Depending on access to pipework and suitable spot for an accessible seacock it's not that big a plumbing job, go for DZR skin fitting and seacock unless going for composite and double stainless hoseclip all hoses.

[Bikertov]

2 hours ago, mikeyboy1966 said:

I saw a chap advertising on face book for mobile pump out,

think the cost was £60/£80.

Wow - that is expensive !

[Bikertov]

2 hours ago, Vaughan said:

If you are considering a diversion it is best to fit a Y valve on the pipe between the toilet and the holding tank, not forgetting a seacock on the hull skin fitting, for safety and for passing regulations.  That way you don't need to use the toilet tank at all, unless you are in an area where pumpouts are practicable.

 

2 hours ago, Smoggy said:

Depending on access to pipework and suitable spot for an accessible seacock it's not that big a plumbing job, go for DZR skin fitting and seacock unless going for composite and double stainless hoseclip all hoses.

So when I've seen pictures of heads with a diverter, it seems to be a lever next to the toilet above the height of the bowl.

Have I got that right, as to me it should need to be at a low level otherwise how does the waste get out without being pumped ?

My toilet has a flap in the bottom of the bowl, so it is a gravity system, and the electric flush is to pump (river) water into the bowl. I have to press a foot lever to empty the bowl at the same time.

The holding tank is under a floor hatch in the saloon area, just outside the heads compartment.

If a diverter valve is fitted, then surely it would need to go under the floor in that area, so would not be easily accessible 

[Smoggy]

Forget the diverter valve then as you don't have the type of loo I was thinking of, sounds like an old broads dump through type (quite a literal description ).

You could fit an extra outlet to the tank and have a pump from tank to skin fitting/seacock to empty the tank but the chemicals for the tank shouldn't be pumped into the river, with the right ventilation you can use a tank without chemicals.

I was assuming a bog with 38mm hose outlet to tank/skin fitting.

[Mouldy]

12 minutes ago, Bikertov said:

 

So when I've seen pictures of heads with a diverter, it seems to be a lever next to the toilet above the height of the bowl.

Have I got that right, as to me it should need to be at a low level otherwise how does the waste get out without being pumped ?

My toilet has a flap in the bottom of the bowl, so it is a gravity system, and the electric flush is to pump (river) water into the bowl. I have to press a foot lever to empty the bowl at the same time.

The holding tank is under a floor hatch in the saloon area, just outside the heads compartment.

If a diverter valve is fitted, then surely it would need to go under the floor in that area, so would not be easily accessible 

Our 29 Sedan had a diverter under the hatch in the floor, the saloon side of the door to the forward cabin.  The seasick was just aft of that.  Although not so easily accessible, it was only a few seconds work to lift the hatch and switch the valve as necessary.

I wouldn’t want a load of additional pipe work and valve on view in the heads.  One day, the boat may be back on The Broads and keeping the aesthetics right would obviously be of benefit in the event of marketing her in the future.

[Bikertov]

OK, so I'm not going too mad then in my understanding of things.

The nitty gritty of this boat ownership thing is a bit of a learning curve !

[annv]

Hi diverter valves only work on a pumped toilet, LeeSan have good diagrams for this on there web site. John

[Bikertov]

2 minutes ago, Mouldy said:

Our 29 Sedan had a diverter under the hatch in the floor, the saloon side of the door to the forward cabin.  The seasick was just aft of that.  Although not so easily accessible, it was only a few seconds work to lift the hatch and switch the valve as necessary.

I wouldn’t want a load of additional pipe work and valve on view in the heads.  One day, the boat may be back on The Broads and keeping the aesthetics right would obviously be of benefit in the event of marketing her in the future.

That makes sense about the aesthetics, and as my holding tank is under that hatch, saloon side of the forward cabin (as presumably your is too ?) it would seem a good place to put one.

I will lift the hatch and have a good look when next on board.

[Smoggy]

28 minutes ago, Bikertov said:

The nitty gritty of this boat ownership thing is a bit of a learning curve !

BIT of a learning curve??? You must still be on the very bottom of the curve then, it'll get a lot steeper yet and wallets are not fitted with handbrakes....

[Smoggy]

How much space below tank? Could maybe fit an outlet at the bottom direct to seacock so when open just drops out naturally and when closed is a regular tank setup, although a non pumped bog leaves things much bigger than a pumped bog.

[annv]

YOU MUST NOT release Elson blue fluid into the river or similar toilet treatment, only pure!! untreated human waste. John

[Mouldy]

1 hour ago, Bikertov said:

That makes sense about the aesthetics, and as my holding tank is under that hatch, saloon side of the forward cabin (as presumably your is too ?) it would seem a good place to put one.

I will lift the hatch and have a good look when next on board.

Our holding tank is on the starboard side under the engine hatch.  The original loo was a manual flush small bowl Jabsco number, with river water flush, which has now been replaced with a Dometic macerating loo with freshwater flush.

[Bikertov]

That is about where my diesel tank is, and I have 2 interconnected freshwater tanks either side towards the aft, in line with the rear access hatch in the open seating area

[Smoggy]

Nice to meet earlier Dan, good luck with the boat (and the wallet).

[Smoggy]

Holding tank issue solved...

You're welcome....

[Bikertov]

1 hour ago, Smoggy said:

Nice to meet earlier Dan, good luck with the boat (and the wallet).

Good to meet you too Smoggy, always great to put a face to a name !

Didn't realise how local you were. You should pop by in the spring, when I am back in the water - I won't be able to afford to buy you a drink by then, but you are welcome to have a glass of water with me 

[Bikertov]

On 05/11/2023 at 23:03, dom said:

https://www.peachment.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/User-Manual-4.200HE-4.220HE-5.280HE.pdf

Ident plate location is shown on page 11. My money is definitely on the 220. The heat exchanger is the same and the lifting eye/injector position looks the same too. Good if so, as it suggests that you may have the same issue Mouldy mentioned with prop size, rather than an aging engine. 6000hrs is significant, but like cars and motorway miles, heavy use and regular servicing is often better than infrequent use. Modern diesels ought to cope with 10k hours+ and potentially a lot more if oil is changed regularly.

 

Well, there you go - much to my very pleasant surprise, it turns out I DO have a 50HP 4.200HE  engine after all !

Even Brooms own (YouTube) video of the boat when they were selling it 6 years ago said it was a 35HP engine

But the ident plate doesn't lie - it is the 4.200 as a few of you suggested. Very happy indeed to find this out.   

[Bikertov]

18 minutes ago, Bikertov said:

But the ident plate doesn't lie - it is the 4.200 as a few of you suggested.  

Typo there - it should have said the 4.220HE engine ...

[dom]

That's a result. I did wonder if Nanni had switched to a common block on later "Mk.2" models and just detuned the smaller ones, but better for you that it's the 220HE model. Jones' have sold an Ocean 29ST after yours where I'm sure the same applies too. It was only looking at that which made me realise that the 29ST is probably my ideal boat, as it'll go under Wroxham bridge. Too pricey at the moment though unfortunately.

I did think about going over to Jones' earlier to have a look at the Fairline Mirage 29 they've got on brokerage, but never quite got around to it. They seem a ridiculously popular boat around here. Only thing which puts me off is the outdrive. The one at Jones' is the less common aft cabin model which has twins on shaft, but it's the 3 cylinder Volvo which must be pretty unrefined. I also think the aft cockpit's a really good looking boat for its age, but the aft cabin model is less so.

[Bikertov]

So another strange anomaly on my boat is the gearbox ...

The original brochure, price list and owners manual all state that the standard gearbox with the Nanni engines is a Hurth manual box, with a hydraulic Hurth box as an option.

But ... I seem to have a PRM / Newage 160D2 (2:1 ratio)

Is that a good thing or a bad thing ?

 

 

[Bikertov]

21 minutes ago, dom said:

That's a result. I did wonder if Nanni had switched to a common block on later "Mk.2" models and just detuned the smaller ones, but better for you that it's the 220HE model. Jones' have sold an Ocean 29ST after yours where I'm sure the same applies too. It was only looking at that which made me realise that the 29ST is probably my ideal boat, as it'll go under Wroxham bridge. Too pricey at the moment though unfortunately.

I did think about going over to Jones' earlier to have a look at the Fairline Mirage 29 they've got on brokerage, but never quite got around to it. They seem a ridiculously popular boat around here. Only thing which puts me off is the outdrive. The one at Jones' is the less common aft cabin model which has twins on shaft, but it's the 3 cylinder Volvo which must be pretty unrefined. I also think the aft cockpit's a really good looking boat for its age, but the aft cabin model is less so.

That 29ST is a lovely boat, in excellent condition and great for the lower airdraft. 

But they do attract quite a premium over the Hardtop version, and I don't see that reducing any time soon. 

Having said that , the one at Jones really was a lot more than mine. 

[Karizma]

23 minutes ago, Bikertov said:

So another strange anomaly on my boat is the gearbox ...

The original brochure, price list and owners manual all state that the standard gearbox with the Nanni engines is a Hurth manual box, with a hydraulic Hurth box as an option.

But ... I seem to have a PRM / Newage 160D2 (2:1 ratio)

Is that a good thing or a bad thing ?

 

 

Hopefully a good thing, as its the same as the one in my boat.

I'm told they are pretty much bullet proof and you just need to change the oil regularly to keep them it good.

you can down load the workshop manual off the internet - but if you cant find a copy I can send you one.

I also think you might have a Centaflex M-160 coupling on the end of the gearbox - again same as mine 

Enjoy exploring the rest of your new boat.

[Bikertov]

6 minutes ago, Karizma said:

Hopefully a good thing, as its the same as the one in my boat.

I'm told they are pretty much bullet proof and you just need to change the oil regularly to keep them it good.

you can down load the workshop manual off the internet - but if you cant find a copy I can send you one.

I also think you might have a Centaflex M-160 coupling on the end of the gearbox - again same as mine 

Enjoy exploring the rest of your new boat.

Thanks - I found a manual online, on their website

Good to know someone else has one too !

I am very much enjoying the discovery stage of ownership, trying to find out exactly what I have bought, how that might have varied form the standard build, and if others have similar components and how they compare.

Knowing the boats are obviously not mass produced in the same way as cars, with only a relative handful of any model ever made, I find it interesting how each build varies from the previous and the next one off the production line. 

[dom]

PRM/Newage gearboxes are pretty common on Broads boats. The Aquafibre I nearly bought recently also had one. Just keep an eye on oil, as Karizma says - and give it a second in neutral before shifting to reverse to reduce load and it should last forever.

17 minutes ago, Bikertov said:

Knowing the boats are obviously not mass produced in the same way as cars, with only a relative handful of any model ever made, I find it interesting how each build varies from the previous and the next one off the production line. 

I don't know about Brooms and whether their hire fleet was built alongside regular production, but on smaller yards, major components often weren't held in stock, so you'd end up fitting whatever the local chandler happened to have in stock at the time. You'd also find that when you built the first model, you'd find something a nightmare to fit or work with, so you'd fit something different on following craft.

The same goes when things fail. You can't wait around for an exact replacement to turn up when it's someone's holiday, so engineers have to just find a way to fit whatever's available to get the hirer back off on their way. A fleet of half a dozen boats might all start out the same, but be significantly different after a few seasons on hire.