Electric Or Gas Cookers

[Andrewcook]

Will there still be Gas Cookers on Boats as it's polluting the Air and to have electric Cookers instead but the Power from the Boats is astronomical  with Fridges TV and Electrics at night times so can the Gas manufacturers use a different type of that does not pollute the atmosphere 

[Mouldy]

Andrew, as a nation, the UK contributes about 1% of global emissions in total.  Changing from gas to electric for cooking on boats on The Broads would have no effect in real terms.

The fact is that to power electric cookers would probably entail using a generator anyway.

Much is being made of becoming carbon neutral in this country, but who will tell the Chinese, whose emissions represent about 28% of the total produced (amongst others) that they will have to reduce their output of greenhouse gasses, when their whole economy is based around a manufacturing industry that makes so many of the things that we buy.

 

[dom]

There's some interesting change on the horizon with battery technology, which might have a bearing on all of this.

First generation Sodium Ion batteries are just starting to appear. They have some massive advantages, including being far more stable than lithium, so the fire issue becomes much less common - and sodium is relatively cheap and easy to source, without the need for huge, environmentally damaging mines.

No doubt 1st generation products will have lots of issues, but after a generation or two (probably 1-2 years), there's a very real chance we'll have access to cheap, safe batteries with comparable capacity to lithium. Once that becomes the case, it'll be more practical to opt for electrical cooking by choice. It may also pave the way for legislative change. New domestic gas boilers are already attracting surcharges. If decent alternative technology exists, it's not unreasonable to drive out gas from boating and other leisure uses.

It's interesting from a convenience perspective but, as Mouldy points out, completely meaningless until Greta and co start to have a go at China, rather than our tiny carbon emissions and already quite responsible policies.

 

 

[marshman]

All things are relative Andrew - not much point in having an electric cooker and having a thumping Perkins or BMC1.5 banging away below decks.!!!

As far as China is concerned, perhaps Australia could stop selling them coal - that might help too!!

[Vaughan]

In fact, the exhaust gases from a propane or butane burner contain only CO2 and water.  There is no other pollution whatever.  How much there would be, if trying to generate enough power to cook electric on a boat, is another matter!

 

[MauriceMynah]

I am reluctant to question  your last post but is not CO also an issue with gas cookers, especially if combustion has a yellow flame?

[Vaughan]

4 minutes ago, MauriceMynah said:

I am reluctant to question  your last post but is not CO also an issue with gas cookers, especially if combustion has a yellow flame?

Yes it is, but I am assuming the cooker is maintained in good order.

The chemical formula for butane is C4 H10.  Four parts carbon to 10 parts hydrogen.

When mixed with the right amount of air :

2X C4 H10 + 13X O2 will give off  8X CO2 + 10X H2O as exhaust gas.

If the primary air is restricted in some way, there will not be enough oxygen to create the full amount of CO2, so for example:

2X C4 H10 + 9X O2 will give off  8X CO + 10 X H2O

A smaller restriction will give off some CO2 but also some CO.

The indication of "incomplete combustion" is when the flame burns with a yellow tip.  If it is a perfect blue flame, it is not giving off CO.

A restriction can be something as simple as a dead spider in the burner, at the end of the winter.  It can be also be caused by two much pressure in the regulator of the gas bottle, which mixes too much gas with the air. This can only be checked by a Gas Safe fitter.

I also remember that one cubic metre of butane burned on a cooker will give off two and a half litres of water into the air in the boat.  That is why you get so much condensation, when cooking.

I hope you enjoy your supper this evening!     

 

[stumpy]

Many years ago I was told by an old boatyard owner that anyone who sets out to convert battery power to heat is on a road to nowhere. 

[dom]

33 minutes ago, stumpy said:

Many years ago I was told by an old boatyard owner that anyone who sets out to convert battery power to heat is on a road to nowhere. 

That was probably very sound advice at the time, but phones, PCs and electric cars really are driving some pretty rapid change with battery and charging technology, which is breaking down a lot of the old hurdles.

Newer smart alternators, coupled to a modern DC/DC charger and lithium or similar batteries can increase power output several times over compared to 10 years ago. If you can find space for a few 100 watts of solar, even better still. If you look at a basin full of canal boats now, a significant percentage have solar. If you can get 500w of solar on board, 6 hours of sunlight and you can run an oven for an hour, without having to pay anything for fuel. Add a solar dump to a calorifier element and you can heat water once your batteries are topped up too. The capital investment needed is also dropping all the time.

I suspect your yard owner's advice will probably hold true for heating for some time to come though!

[Regulo]

2 hours ago, Vaughan said:

The chemical formula for butane is C4 H10.  Four parts carbon to 10 parts hydrogen.

When mixed with the right amount of air :

2X C4 H10 + 13X O2 will give off  8X CO2 + 10X H2O as exhaust gas.

If the primary air is restricted in some way, there will not be enough oxygen to create the full amount of CO2, so for example:

2X C4 H10 + 9X O2 will give off  8X CO + 10 X H2O

 

Do you have to? I am now having a serious mental wobble, due to the resurrection of my buried memories of school chemistry lessons. It's the one subject that completely scrambled my (limited) brain. Never been right since. 

[grendel]

however the downside of heating with electricity on board is the amount of battery power required, presumably lithium batteries, which are neither cheap or particularly green in their own right.

[ChrisB]

16 hours ago, marshman said:

All things are relative Andrew - not much point in having an electric cooker and having a thumping Perkins or BMC1.5 banging away below decks.!!!

As far as China is concerned, perhaps Australia could stop selling them coal - that might help too!!

Urban myth, I am afraid. China has no need to buy Australian coal. It has it's own.

The biggest user of Australian coal I think is still Japan. The rest of their exported coal goes to South Korea, Tiawan and India

[Mouldy]

23 hours ago, dom said:

It's interesting from a convenience perspective but, as Mouldy points out, completely meaningless until Greta and co start to have a go at China, rather than our tiny carbon emissions and already quite responsible policies.

Hmmm.  I can’t help thinking that Greta will have more success shoving an elephant up the stairs than she will with trying to convince the five top polluting nations in the world that they need to reduce their emissions- China, USA, Russia, India and Japan.

Somehow I can’t see the American police or the  Russians taking bottles of water to climate protesters who glue themselves to the roads.  Their version of sympathy would be a little less sensitive!