Anti Social Behaviour

[Mouldy]

I’ve just been notified that this is a recent posting on YouTube.  Fellow members of the Moonlight Shadow Syndicate told me last week about some aggressive anglers at Irstead Parish moorings and it would appear that they have now assumed rights to use the Staithe for themselves.

There is a fair amount of foul and abusive language here, so those of a certain disposition shouldn’t watch:

https://youtu.be/Wx7MQZsWSwg?si=oiuAE6529gxuk1xU

 

[grendel]

surely the course of action would be to  send the video to the Broads Authority to deal with, rather than just posting on youtube, where it will undoubtedly get views and comments, but wont get any action taked by those who have the authority to do so.

[grendel]

from what I could see they have broken a bylaw by interfering with a vessel mooring, and that is clear evidence of that act..

[Tempest]

It is interesting to me that boaters have had issues with fishermen at Gayes Staithe and Neatished previously and we even had a members boat having paint thrown on it at Neatished in the past.

These guys need a visit from the rangers as being a cynical ex detective it doesn't take much to put 2 and 2 together and suggest that these "may" be our offenders as the vast majority of the fishing community are spot on, but these are 2 unsavoury characters.

The comments section states the BA aren't interested which I find alarming 

They have pushed the boat away, they have threatened to throw the skipper in the water and they are wrong in their assumption that the boat has no right to moor

If that doesn't deserve a visit I don't know what does

I would also report it to the broads police for their information at the very least as this could go very wrong with a slightly more determined skipper!!!

[Meantime]

11 minutes ago, Tempest said:

The comments section states the BA aren't interested which I find alarming 

It probably all depends on who approached them, and how they approached them. The poster of that video has a long history of being a thorn in the side of The BA. 

It 100% doesn't make the actions of the fishermen right and action should be taken, but really it needs the boater who was attempting to moor to contact the BA, not someone with an axe to grind, and their own personal agenda.

[NeilB]

11 minutes ago, Meantime said:

It probably all depends on who approached them, and how they approached them. The poster of that video has a long history of being a thorn in the side of The BA. 

As does the chap in the Freeman, remember the Sutton Staithe electric post video?  However, in this case I'd support him 100% though.

[Vaughan]

This lamentable impasse is known as "might is right" and it happens all over the Broads wherever a boater is confronted, in an isolated spot with no witnesses, by two or more burly and thoroughly offensive individuals.  There is usually no choice but to go and find somewhere else to moor.

1/. The Ant is a navigation, so fishermen have no priority over river traffic.

2/. They are correct that this part of the mooring is not BA.  It is, however, the parish staithe for the use of boats and I cannot believe that the parish would have sold fishing rights to these two "beasts of burden" to the exclusion of those who have the right to moor boats on the staithe.

3/. Forgive my ignorance, but is fishing still allowed at this time of year?

4/. One of the men pushed the bow of the boat off but he did not interfere with mooring lines, so that may not be an offence.  What most clearly is an offence, with video evidence is, at the very least, "conduct likely to cause a breach of The Peace" and should certainly be reported to the Police.

 

[Meantime]

4 minutes ago, Vaughan said:

3/. Forgive my ignorance, but is fishing still allowed at this time of year?

Yes, I believe the closed season is 15th March till 15th June.

[NeilB]

Irstead Staithe has same fishing rules as the BA moorings - Anglers are welcome but must make way for boats seeking to moor

https://www.norfolkbroads.com/link/accommodation-moorings-stalham-irstead-staithe-moorings-662/?fbclid=IwAR2duogSf7sJ6s2wUanUODWwlyA3TunxKbsi16f7PutWNIYG4WsMLe9muiE

[Hylander]

1 hour ago, Tempest said:

f that doesn't deserve a visit I don't know what does

I would also report it to the broads police for their information at the very least as this could go very wrong with a slightly more determined skipper!!!

Definitely a call to the river police.         Who the hell do they think they are?    It is not a fishing club mooring , it is a 24hr mooring, so they can ........ off may be they would understand that.

 

[Meantime]

5 minutes ago, NeilB said:

Irstead Staithe has same fishing rules as the BA moorings - Anglers are welcome but must make way for boats seeking to moor

https://www.norfolkbroads.com/link/accommodation-moorings-stalham-irstead-staithe-moorings-662/?fbclid=IwAR2duogSf7sJ6s2wUanUODWwlyA3TunxKbsi16f7PutWNIYG4WsMLe9muiE

I note it also has a mooring limit of 24hrs the same as the BA moorings.

Two wrongs don't make a right. The poster of that video has a history of overstaying on moorings, the subject of the video has a history when it comes to BA electric posts.

The two fishermen do appear to be obnoxious, but I would still question some of the history.

I would urge caution before this debate gets too heated, or people get too outraged by the incident.

If you put 100 black ants and 100 red ants in a glass jar nothing will happen. But if you take the jar and shake it violently then the ants will start killing each other.

The red ants believe that the blacks ants are the enemy, whilst the black ants believe that the red ants are the enemy, when the real enemy is the person who shook the jar. The same is true in society and more often than not, social media.

I would question who shook the jar, and their motives!

[Tempest]

3 minutes ago, Meantime said:

The poster of that video has a history of overstaying on moorings, the subject of the video has a history when it comes to BA electric posts.

 

I would suggest the poster appears to be a witness to an event occurring and his history has no relevance whatsoever to the actions taken by the skipper trying to legitimately moor and the 2 fishermen.

To suggest otherwise shows it is you who appears to be shaking a jar against the poster of the video............

If this was me trying to moor, I would thank him for recording the video and request a copy, so I could take it further and provide the evidence for other boaters so they can protect themselves and their vessels, not attack the poster for his past actions he may or may not have taken. 

[RumPunch]

Has anyone raised this matter with Irstead PC ?

 

[kpnut]

It shouldn’t matter a jot what history the 2 boaters have. This is just wrong. And just fuels the ever bubbling problem. 

It happened to me at Womack Staithe in October 2020. I was on the pump out staithe and not realising there was a water point there, I needed to move over onto the main staithe to fill with water. 
I called over to a man with his two teenage children who were fishing on the corner opposite that I’d need to come in there for about 20 minutes. It was the only available spot. My friend walked round the dyke end to see to my lines as I reversed in. But the family just didn’t make any effort to move. I carried on manoevering the boat. I threw a stern line across to my friend as the wind was pushing me across the dyke entrance again and it landed on a fishing box. My friend went to get it and I was promptly told in a very loud shout, ‘you tell your friend I’ll throw her in the river’ (add expletives in as many places as you wish and you’ll probably still miss one!) This was from the teenage girl, while younger brother kept out of it and father just gave her a thumbs up. I was accused of wrecking their day out. 

It was very unnerving having my friend on the staithe and me, unable to do anything to help her, on the boat.

Other boaters did then come and help and the family moved pretty sharpish. 
When the couple on the boat next door returned to their boat, and I told them what had happened, they said much the same had happened to them and the family just shifted down to the corner, whereon the boaters explained it was getting busy and they’d probably be asked to move again soon.

We decided to stay the night in the end, as much to stop the family returning and causing the same issue to another unsuspecting boater. 

This friend was so upset (on her 60th birthday to boot) that she won’t come again. Being a hirer at the time, somehow I didn’t realise I could have reported it.

I’m recounting this, not to start a string of ‘it’s happened to me’ but more to show the upset it can cause.
I now usually avoid anywhere where I need to ask fishermen to move unless there’s a really good reason why I will need to moor there. I know I shouldn’t have to, but once bitten as the saying goes. I’ve missed the opportunity to moor at Horning staithe countless times.
And if I do need to go in, I tend to approach really really slowly and try to have a bit of banter through my helm window as I come in. I also try to exchange pleasantries with any fishermen I pass when walking on the quay as I’m sure it can only help relations between the two groups. Some respond, some don’t. 

[rightsaidfred]

All totally unnecessary, boat moors in middle anglers fish either end, he was right in that it was nothing to do with the BA but that dosn`t excuse the behaviour as there is a notice clearly displayed by the car park, maybe a report to the police regarding abusive and threatening behaviour is called for.

Fred

[CambridgeCabby]

The vast majority of anglers we have encountered over the years have been very good in moving to allow us to moor up , in fact in 30+ years we have only had issues twice , we often offer the anglers (once we have moored) a cuppa as do many other boaters .

The Broads ARE on the whole a friendly sociable place , idiots like those in the video are rare .

[dom]

3 hours ago, grendel said:

from what I could see they have broken a bylaw by interfering with a vessel mooring, and that is clear evidence of that act..

6 of 1, half a dozen of the other. The boat is untolled so technically shouldn't be there.

[dom]

3 hours ago, Meantime said:

It probably all depends on who approached them, and how they approached them. The poster of that video has a long history of being a thorn in the side of The BA.

There's clearly much more going on than just what's shown. Why is he filming in the first place? Suggests to me that there has already been a confrontation of some sort. I suspect that rather than "sorry mate, I just need to moor for 5 mins to empty my bins" the Freeman owner probably barked orders at them.

 

[CambridgeCabby]

7 minutes ago, dom said:

6 of 1, half a dozen of the other. The boat is untolled so technically has no rights.

If a boat owner pays monthly it will show as unpaid , best not to assume please 

[dom]

Just now, CambridgeCabby said:

If a boat owner pays monthly it will show as unpaid , best not to assume please 

I wasn't aware of that. That makes the BA's toll checker highly questionable in my view. It's gone offline in the last few days. I wonder if the two points are connected?

[dom]

2 hours ago, Tempest said:

I would suggest the poster appears to be a witness to an event occurring and his history has no relevance whatsoever to the actions taken by the skipper trying to legitimately moor and the 2 fishermen.

If there was a few minutes of peaceful uncut video leading up to the event, I'd agree with you. In this case however, I have to ask whether the content has been carefully cropped to deliberately distort the view.

[kpnut]

2 hours ago, RumPunch said:

Has anyone raised this matter with Irstead PC

Yes, I decided to. While remaining impartial as I don’t fully understand who was in the right on the parish staithe, the matter of intimidation occurring on their property is worth flagging up to them. 
 

I rang, left a message with the clerk/secretary and forwarded the footage in an email. 

[Mouldy]

15 minutes ago, dom said:

6 of 1, half a dozen of the other. The boat is untolled so technically shouldn't be there.

Fellow owners on Moonlight Shadow were given the same treatment at the same place by the same anglers last week.  They decided not to moor, but to move off to avoid further confrontation.

I can assure you, as a member of the Syndicate Management Team, that Moonlight Shadow is tolled, therefore has every right to be on the river.

As Tempest mentioned earlier in the thread, there have been other incidents at other moorings over the years involving anglers and members of the baiting community.  Yes, these anglers are clearly an exception, however threatening to push the boat owner in the river, interspersed with fouls and abusive language is not the way to handle this situation.

[Meantime]

2 minutes ago, dom said:

If there was a few minutes of peaceful uncut video leading up to the event, I'd agree with you. In this case however, I have to ask whether the content has been carefully cropped to deliberately distort the view.

Like I said, it depends on who's shaking the jar, and why?

I'm certainly not going to get outraged, or indignant at a video that only shows part of an incident, recorded by someone with a very checkered history of courting controversy between different groups on the Broads.

[kpnut]

Tolled /untolled/previous footage being cut etc misses the point in my view. 
Of course it must have been set up to an extent unless the person filming just happened to film the peaceful surroundings they were in. 
 

But the parish council should be informed of an incident on their property. Doesn’t matter if between boaters and anglers / dog walkers and anglers / two people having a fight or anything else.