Boat Survey

[LadyPatricia]

We have seen 2 Norman 24's that we are very interested in. One marina has said they will do an inspection and sort out the insurance for the first year, approx £150 fully comp. they will also deliver within 200 mile included in the price. That would get it delivered to the broads.

Does this sound too good to be true or is it about right. It is a Diesel engine, not sure of the type of drive although only the rudder is visible from the back. I will try to attach a picture.

The boat also has no hot water. What prices are we looking at to get running hot water on the boat, no huge issue as we can boil a kettle for washing ect.

Hope you lovely people can help

Steve & Deb

[Timbo]

Hi Steve and Deb,

 

Is this the yard who are offering the boat for sale doing the inspection? I would advise getting an independent surveyor to do the inspection for you. As a price guide on delivery the yard to which the boat is being delivered to would probably require payment for putting the boat in the water. As for insurance here's a rough yard stick for you, my boat Royal Tudor is a 32 foot woodie and the insurance is £120 per year.

[LadyPatricia]

Thank you Timbo.

We went to look at the boat today, the photos are ones I took while we were there. It's advertised as just having been anti fouled, not sure if an expert eye can tell by a picture.

They have offered that we can keep it at the marina on the thames while we look for other moorings so we would be able to use her. Our preferred choice though would be to move her to the broads. Thought it a nice offer though and not one that would be made if they had any inkling that the boat had any issues. Is that the case or am I being too naive?

It is a little scary doing this as a novice and not knowing the pitfalls

[Mowjo]

Steve! this may be a daft question! but if you want to keep it on the Broads why not buy one here??? this time of year plenty of nice boats come up for sale! you may even find a different make of boat you like,,,

 

Frank,,,,

[LadyPatricia]

Hi Frank

We may well still buy one that is already on the broads. We've only looked at this one today as it had the 'free delivery' bit

Nothing has been agreed on this one. I was just after some info as to if it seemed a reasonable deal.

We are actually on the broads in 2 weeks time on holiday. During this time I've already got 2 or 3 boatyards or marina boat sales planned for visits while we are there.

It's a big purchase for us so I want to make sure we get the best boat and the best deal we can for our hard earned cash

Steve

[ranworthbreeze]

Hi Steve & Deb,

 

I tend to agree with Frank, I would look for a boat already on the Broads, that way there may not be any incidentals to get involved with.

The boat should already be registered as being on the Broads, you will have to register in your name but it ought to be easier. If it is then the BSS (Boat Safety Scheme) may be still valid, they run for 5 years.

 

Here is a shortcut to our current list of Marine Surveyors, I can recommend Ian Jennings who has done our last two BSS inspections, everyone on our list has been recommended by forum members.

http://www.thenorfolkbroads.net/forum/forum/196-marine-surveyors/

Regards

Alan

[ExUserGone]

I would think that has been converted at some point to shaft as most normans I have ever seen have been outbard or inboard with enfield outdrive, if done well it's not a negative point but worth looking at, I didn't think norman made any hulls equiped for a fixed shaft setup.

If it has a bss then it is still valid wherever it comes from, if the deal is right registering for broads is no hardship.

[MBA Marine]

I looked at buying a project one last year with a perkins inboard on a shaft.

 

Yes that has been antifouled but it has been sitting for a few weeks since judging by the discoloration from water running down the hull.

 

Depending on the calorifier you wanted fitted could change the price by a lot, then there is immersion or no immersion, the engine is likely to be direct cooled so hot water might not achieve quite the same temperature as a in directly cooled engine. Then there is hot water piping and hot taps/shower but a very rough price £600

 

Please note Im not advertising, just answering a question!

[ranworthbreeze]

Hi Mark,

I know you are just answering Steve & Deb's question, no harm done.

We tend not to jump on people for the odd advert and even then we invite people to advertise or sponsor the forum before pulling their posts for continual advertising.

 

New owners need all the help they can get, adhering to the rules and regulations on the Broads can be a minefield for them.

 

Regards

Alan

[JawsOrca]

Hi Steve and Deb... just to say I really don't like the look at that rudder... I'm sure its fine but if you do go along with it I highly recommend you get an independant survey or get someone who knows all about boats to take a good look (don't forget surveys don't look at the engine so get a mechanic to look over).. I'm surprised its not got hot water either.. it's not a complex thing to install so a little strange why its missing.. (Marks guestimate sounds fair, calis start at about £200 alone)

 

We had a transport quote of £600 from rochester to norfolk so thats a little strange why they would throw that in.. they clearly want to sell..

 

I agree with the other comments that it makes a whole of sense to buy in norfolk.. norfolk prices should be cheaper than the south too. Also I'd buy one complete with all the bits (heating) so its ready to go.. the last thing you want to be doing is waiting around for things to be added on and fixed (unless its a really good deal) ..

 

Happy hunting..

[Mowjo]

Plus! if you buy it here it will most likely be listed on Craigs database, so you can roughly see how many owners it's had and previous names,,

 

Leo! I actually thought that myself, the Stern just looked odd, everything I've seen has been outboard of those leg things, as for the BSS, yes it will be valid but Steve will need to watch out for the toilet, if it isn't Porta Potty coming from the Thames or Cambridge it will more likely have a Sea toilet because they are Tidal,and not a holding tank,  not a big deal but if your not aware of it and get caught using it he could end up in deep Doo Doo, 

 

Mark! a question! are you saying it's just a matter of fitting a Calorifier and a few pipes and pump, the new/old boat I'm in the process of buying has no hot water, it has one of those gas water heaters that's seen better days, I wanted to have hot water until I was told I needed a heat exchanger on the engine, when I worked out I would be looking at around £1500 with the price of a heat exchanger, I thought the kettle looked a better option

[Gracie]

Hi Steve & Deb

The best advice I can give you is to take notice of these guy's on here, they know their stuff.

When we were looking to buy a boat they were fantastic. Frank (Mowjo) said to me, "You'll know when the right boat comes along, you will get a feel for her" he was so right, we fell in love at first sight with our little boat.

Enjoy your search and good luck

Grace

[MBA Marine]

 

Plus! if you buy it here it will most likely be listed on Craigs database, so you can roughly see how many owners it's had and previous names,,

 

Leo! I actually thought that myself, the Stern just looked odd, everything I've seen has been outboard of those leg things, as for the BSS, yes it will be valid but Steve will need to watch out for the toilet, if it isn't Porta Potty coming from the Thames or Cambridge it will more likely have a Sea toilet because they are Tidal,and not a holding tank,  not a big deal but if your not aware of it and get caught using it he could end up in deep Doo Doo, 

 

Mark! a question! are you saying it's just a matter of fitting a Calorifier and a few pipes and pump, the new/old boat I'm in the process of buying has no hot water, it has one of those gas water heaters that's seen better days, I wanted to have hot water until I was told I needed a heat exchanger on the engine, when I worked out I would be looking at around £1500 with the price of a heat exchanger, I thought the kettle looked a better option

The boat may already have a pump on a cold water supply or it may not and will need one. 

Fitting a heat exchanger is a very costly business, the system works better with one but you can tap out of the engine without, just the temperature of the water might not reach the same temp.

Gas water heater, Paloma or other, when these are working well they are a pretty good solution, handy for boats powered by outboards, a newly fitted one should have a balanced flue pipe, also new units that I have seen do not have a pilot light, but self ignite (powerd by 2x D cell batteries) when you call for water.

Most small boats like a Norman dont have a shower, so nice warm water is ok where as a tank of hot water is whats needed for showers.

this person may prefer not to try and harness heat from engine and just use a immersion, we would need to know their requirements to spec what system will suit their needs.

 

Back the survey, a yard inspection is not the same as a survey but when money is tight can be a much cheaper option, I do them for people from time to time, but as has been said the inspector should be independent from the seller.

[BroadScot]

I loved the old gas water heaters that were on the Aston Concorde class and the Oak too. No noise and hot morning showers...Bliss!

 

Steve and Debs happy hunting, as Frank says, the magnet will draw you to your final boat choice.

 

 

Iain

[JennyMorgan]

I too would seek independent advice. I would query why a boat has been anti-fouled at this time of the year, normal practice is to do it just before launching. In other words is something being hidden? I too wonder about the rudder, it does look both unusual and vulnerable. Apart from that she looks very tidy but I am curious.

[Mowjo]

Thanks Mark! still not sure what way to go, we only really use hot water to wash up, we use marinas showers when we are out, we managed for years with just the kettle, guess it comes down to if I have any money left after fixing up the new boat,,

 

 

Gracie I did it again today, over the last few days I've looked at around twenty boats, some I didn't even get on to look at, some I got on and just said Nah! this morning Jon took us to see this Seamaster 27 and I looked across the Marina looked at Judi and said that's my new boat, that was without even setting foot on it, I'm sure some people think I'm mad when I say the boat will just feel right and you'll know it's the one,

 

Steve and Debs, I'm pretty sure the same thing will happen with you with knowing the right boat for you, but one thing I doand I'm on boat number 7 now, I look at a few boats first and try and work out a rough cost of what it'll cost me to get it how I want, so say they are 5k boats and need a new cooker and fridge, that will cost another 1k for decent kit, that will make that 5k boat a 6k boat, so what I do next is look at 6k boats, it doesn't always work but I can honestly say that extra 1k can buy you a whole different class of boat, most cheap boats are cheap for a reason I've found, unless you come across that needle in the haystack one,

 

Frank,,,

[ranworthbreeze]

The rudder does look to be an issue as Peter and others have said.

 

The fixed corner fenders are helping to protect the transom but do not protect that rudder when stern mooring.

 

I also thought the boat looked tidy in the pictures but that rudder would put me off.

 

Regards

Aaln

[BroadScot]

Hi Frank,

 

Which style? 

 

Pic 1   

 

  Pic 2

 

 

Iain.

[Mowjo]

Number 2 Iain! I believe the one in the first pic is the Seamaster 813, I had one before Crackers, spent a year working on it, then sold it because we had the Café, and working seven days a week it never got used, the plan was sell it and hire for a couple of weeks a year, three months after selling her (Whitestar) we had a Brainfart and sold the Café, I was gutted I loved that boat,,, if you look at the photo bucket link at the bottom you can see some of the work I did to her,,,

 

Frank,,,,

[BroadScot]

I had the first style once. Sabre Princess. Hired off Dave Pipe at the old Astons, Loddon Yard, It handled superbly, if a bit bouyant.

 

Didn't DAWNCRAFT have the style you have bought or buying. Old sawdust cells are telling me I may well be wrong with that assumption.

 

Happy rebuilding to your spec though Frank!

 

Iain.

[LadyPatricia]

Thank you all so much for all you replies and help.

After reading all your replies it looks like we will give this one a miss. For so many to comment on the rudder 'not looking right' does start the alarm bells ringing.

We will continue our search while on the broads from 27th sept.

Steve

[Mowjo]

Iain! I can't be sure, others might know but I don't think Dawncraft were anything like Seamasters, somewhere in the back of my noodle says that they were originally narrow beam and designed for the canals, as far as I can remember when Seamaster went out of production around 1980 some of the ex employees started Viking cruisers and then the moulds were bought by Viking Cruisers and they still used the hull mould until recently, I think the Elysian Bounty used the same 27 hull mould as well, I'll have to look up the History of Seamasters when I get a chance, It's weird my boats come and go and I feel nothing, apart from happy when I make a profit on them, but the two Seamasters I've had I was really sad to see go, at the rate I'm going I should be able to work my way right through the range,,

 

Frank,,,,,

[BroadScot]

Thanks Frank, sorry to force the brain cells into overdrive at the weekend ! Someone will know.

 

 

Iain

[LadyPatricia]

Ok, we MAY have found the boat we are looking for. What type of survey should we get before purchase? The boat is currently out of the water.

Can anyone recommend a company or individual who can carry out said survey please. Any help is much appreciated

Steve

[mbird]

Two names immediately spring to mind for a survey; Steve Truss of Insight Marine, and Ian Lumley of Lumley Marine Surveyors. I have no personal experience of these guys, but they come recommended by friends. They would happily carry out a pre-purchase survey for you.

 

Bear in mind that even survey's aren't cheap, also needing to pay for a lift out if the boat is not ashore, or pay for a lift in for a river trial. However, when buying a boat ,especially if it is your first, they can highlight potential problems that can be used as a bargaining point for negotiating the price. If a survey results in you walking away from the purchase, it is money down the drain so to speak, but far better spend £500 on a survey than buy a boat you then find needs £1000's of work to put right.

 

Whilst it may be convenient to buy a boat already on the Broads, the prices can sometimes be a little inflated so don't let the thought of having to transport a boat from elsewhere put you off. Our current boat, a 37' sea-going flybridge only cost £600 to get to the Broads from Newark on a low loader, so the cost isn't massive in the grand scheme of things.

 

Good luck with the search!