Really good idea, or sheer bloody mindedness?

[JennyMorgan]

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/it_s_really_upset_everybody_plant_tubs_spark_parking_row_in_norfolk_broads_village_1_4016062

[BroadScot]

I may be wrong JM, but I think they are breaking european law regarding no disabled parking facilities! The free car park is too far from the shops. I must dig out my Blue Badge book.

 

 

Iain.

[BroadScot]

Should add I don't see any hazzard warning strips on the boxes. Hope they have taken out plenty of vehicle insurances!

 

 

Iain

[ranworthbreeze]

Parking is always difficult at horning and taking the ability to park on one side of this service road away will only make matters worse.

I believe it was done to stop parking there so it would not spoil the view of the green from the river, I wonder if they will also stop the mooring?

I bet the pub & shops are up in arms over this decision.

Regards

Alan

[JennyMorgan]

Iain, your help and advice would be appreciated.

[BroadScot]

Hi JM,

 

This is the Blue Badge link I hope.   https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/206022/blue-badge-rights-responsibilities.pdf

 

IF that was a private road, then I would have no Blue Badge rites. But, health and safety without them showing reflective strips on the boxes, may be an issue. 

 

Iain

[MauriceMynah]

I remember my parents telling me that when my sister and I were children, the most terrifying thing they would ever overhear was a sentence starting with the three words "I Know....lets.." and so on.

 

Nowadays kids are too busy with their noses buried in their mobiles and tablets to have ideas fit to terrorize their parents and the job is left to parish councils.

 

Somebody at some meeting has put forwards a motion that started "I know, ... lets......."

If the councils objection was long term parkers, they could have dealt with it by single yellow line limitations. If it is to improve the view then I'm sure there were other actions possible.

 

For my mind I wonder if there was a bit of cash left in the budget that had to be got rid of before 5th April. I know,  I'm a cynic!

[Matt]

The police officer in me would suggest that motor vehicles should not be using a "restricted byway" anyway?

[JennyMorgan]

I don't know the legal status of the road, it may be 'private', owned by the parish council, will ask.

[Guest]

More details of the council's decision are readable online, via the draft minutes of the March 2015 meeting of Horning Parish Council, at

 

http://horning.norfolkparishes.gov.uk/files/2015/03/201503MARCH-draft-minutes1.docx

 

and also at the previous meeting-

 

http://horning.norfolkparishes.gov.uk/files/2015/02/201502FEBRUARY-draft-minutes1.docx

 

The correspondence of the March minutes has an interesting item "n"

 

"Email from B Woodcock regarding the restricted byway.  The Clerk read the email, which explained that Mrs Woodcock had been the Vice-Chairman of the Parish Council around 25 years ago, when the restricted byway was bequeathed to the Parish by the Bullard Family who originally owned it, on condition that there was no parking, and notices had been put up to this effect at that time  Noted"

 

So it would appear that maybe parking should never have been allowed on it.......

 

Either way, there does seem to be a problem with some people parking there for more than an hour two, indeed, there are references to "days at a time".

 

They don't help the local trade or OAP's wanting to park up for a while and watch the river.

[LadyPatricia]

I can see both sides here but if what Strowy reports is fact then there is no argument. As long as the free car park offers disabled spaces then there should be no problem, and the council have completed their obligation to the disabled. There are various mobile aids available to those who need them. We have just had to buy my mother a lightweight wheelchair so we can take her out for days as she has issues with walking now. Mum has a blue badge but the amount of blue badge holders that feel they should be allowed to park anywhere AND free of charge is astonishing.

That said, I don't believe for one minute that it was only disabled people who parked there anyway.

I'm not local and suspect no signage is visible to enforce any parking restrictions. A simple sign will advise no parking is allowed, planters in place or not.

Steve

[BroadScot]

Knowing that the village has no street lighting, or didn't have the last time we were there, I wonder what would happen if say for example someone in pitch darkness without a torch (it must happen surely) knocked into said box without no forwarning i.e reflective fluo stripes? Perhaps Matt can clarify that one, please.

 

Would they be liable for injuries. The Parish Council.

 

Iain.

[BroadScot]

I should add, I have seen boxes like those, with the red reflective discs on them.

 

 

Iain.

[Rincewind]

Still no street lighting, Iain...and long may it remain thus. The starscapes visible some nights are beyond belief for those of us residing in a more urban area.

Nearly as good as the starscapes visible at Thurne on a clear night.

 

The red disc thing is a very good idea though especially in the parasitic blame culture in which we unfortunately find ourselves these days.

[Matt]

Knowing that the village has no street lighting, or didn't have the last time we were there, I wonder what would happen if say for example someone in pitch darkness without a torch (it must happen surely) knocked into said box without no forwarning i.e reflective fluo stripes? Perhaps Matt can clarify that one, please.

Would they be liable for injuries. The Parish Council.

Iain.

No idea but I cannot see how it would be any different to waste bin assuming it is a restricted byway.

From memory when I drove down there there was dead end sign (which I thought was strange as I had seen cars down there) which might indicate that the cars should not be there anyway.

[Poppy]

No idea but I cannot see how it would be any different to waste bin

 

Now there's an idea.....

[Poppy]

There is now a petition

 

https://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.change.org%2Fp%2Fhorning-parish-council-remove-the-planters-from-the-staithe&h=8AQGW4gWg

[Guest]

No idea but I cannot see how it would be any different to waste bin assuming it is a restricted byway.

From memory when I drove down there there was dead end sign (which I thought was strange as I had seen cars down there) which might indicate that the cars should not be there anyway.

 

You're quite right Matt, the Southern entrance to the Staithe byway does indeed have a no through road sign, and what's more, there's been a "no motor vehicles" sign just before the green as well, for many years now. (this photo taken last year).

 

As the picture shows, it's been ignored, which is why I guess the council had to physically prevent it now.

 

So even though the road does carry on past the back of the Swan, and rejoin Lower street, it's actually illegal to even drive a motor vehicle along that section (where the bins are now).

 

The EDP photo from the link shows that parking still seems to be permitted before the no motor vehicles sign.

[JennyMorgan]

No idea but I cannot see how it would be any different to waste bin assuming it is a restricted byway. 

Just a thought, waste bins, umm, replacements for Broadland's lost toilets?

 

The Bullard family might well have stipulated no parking but perhaps a right by custom or a prescriptive right to park has been established? I'm no lawyer but I have a sneaking suspicion that a clever one should look at this. Only twenty five years since the Bullard family bequeathed the byway, really? Is B Woodcock sure? Has the Parish Clerk checked the records?

[JennyMorgan]

Strowager, looks like you have nailed it! Oh well, so few places where one can park up for a riverside reverie, now there is one less. I feel sorry for those who have enjoyed it in the past.

[Guest]

Maybe Peter, though I'm now trawling back through my photos of Horning Staithe to see if I have a clearer picture showing that sign underneath the main "no motor vehicles" sign.

 

I guess there's just a chance that the smaller one below might be qualified with "except for access" or something....

[Matt]

I must of missed the no motor vehicle signs........ On no wait I clearly remember I was on my horse.........

[Guest]

I've had a good look through my photos and I can't find a close up of the no motor vehicles sign, but I noticed on some of my bike videos that there still  appears to be permitted riverside parking for about 9 cars in the layby before the green and the restriction sign.

 

None of the complainers seem to have mentioned that...

 

 

[Paladin]

More details of the council's decision are readable online, via the draft minutes of the March 2015 meeting of Horning Parish Council, at

 

http://horning.norfolkparishes.gov.uk/files/2015/03/201503MARCH-draft-minutes1.docx

 

and also at the previous meeting-

 

http://horning.norfolkparishes.gov.uk/files/2015/02/201502FEBRUARY-draft-minutes1.docx

 

The correspondence of the March minutes has an interesting item "n"

 

"Email from B Woodcock regarding the restricted byway.  The Clerk read the email, which explained that Mrs Woodcock had been the Vice-Chairman of the Parish Council around 25 years ago, when the restricted byway was bequeathed to the Parish by the Bullard Family who originally owned it, on condition that there was no parking, and notices had been put up to this effect at that time  Noted"

 

So it would appear that maybe parking should never have been allowed on it.......

 

Either way, there does seem to be a problem with some people parking there for more than an hour two, indeed, there are references to "days at a time".

 

They don't help the local trade or OAP's wanting to park up for a while and watch the river.

I'm inclined to think that the parish council (or the objectors) should conduct a deeper investigation into this. I have attached the decision of a Commons Commissioner's hearing, dated 1974 (i.e 41 years ago). The relevant section begins at the second paragraph of page 4.

 

If I read it correctly, the land was conveyed to Messrs.Storey, Bullard and Holme in 1927. In 1935/1936, those three individuals vested that land in the parish council, on the understanding that it would be used as a public pleasure ground. The parish council covenanted "to maintain and improve the land as and for the purpose of a public pleasure ground".

 

The documents relating to this transaction should be held by the parish council, so it should be a simple matter to check.  Bearing in mind there were precious few cars about, but plenty of horse-drawn vehicles, I doubt very much that there was any stipulation about parking, there's certainly no mention in the Commissioner's decision.

The Staithe Horning 1.pdf

[BroadScot]

Looking at the photos available, thanks for them, I do not see any single or double yellow lines. Looks like a private road then?  So private land? Anyway i've found this, it may give us the answer ....

If its in the other links, my sincere appols.  Rights of way and accessing land - GOV.UK

 

 

Iain